An Open Question for 'Jock Scot' (and Scots)

[Jock Scot]

On that basis the London Scottish should no longer have kilts, the Caledonian ball in London should cease forthwith - and so on and so forth ad infinitum!!!

Well, yes.

I have tried to exclude the military in all this. Regimental pride does win battles and helps recruiting and a first rate uniform has worked wonders. The Caledonian Ball could be construed as an "any excuse for a party" type thing and gives the "pocket" Scot a chance to show how Scootish they are. OK, Ok not all that go are "pocket" Scots, so why not have a party that makes people happy? Well I suppose, why not!

[kilted scholar]

Well, yes.

I have tried to exclude the military in all this. Regimental pride does win battles and helps recruiting and a first rate uniform has worked wonders. The Caledonian Ball could be construed as an "any excuse for a party" type thing and gives the "pocket" Scot a chance to show how Scootish they are. OK, Ok not all that go are "pocket" Scots, so why not have a party that makes people happy? Well I suppose, why not!

While the Caledonian Ball is not exactly my cup of tea - nor any ball or specially coloured tie do either - it appears that Highland evening dress is required (unless in military garb), and that in England.

It seems to me that these views are a definite minority report, and a small one at that.

[Jock Scot]

While the Caledonian Ball is not exactly my cup of tea - nor any ball or specially coloured tie do either - it appears that Highland evening dress is required (unless in military garb), and that in England.

It seems to me that these views are a definite minority report, and a small one at that.

My views are not unique and they may or may not be a minority view. The point that I have been trying to get across is that, they exist and people from outwith Scotland might like to be rather more aware of them they may have been. That is all, apart that I have tried to answer a question that was asked of me.

[Alan H]

I have to say that I like Jock Scot. He's a good man, he's got his opinions but he's reasonable about them. He doesn't force his ideas down anyones gullet, but if asked, he'll tell you what he thinks. I can't imagine how anybody would have a problem with this.

I've enjoyed his posts about querying his family and friends about kilts, attitudes regarding the kilt and so on. They're interesting and entertaining. I LIKE Jock. I RESPECT Jock. I might ask Jocks opinion about something and if I did so, I'd listen to, and pay attention to what he has to say.

BUT.... Gentlemen and dudes...... while I really like Jock, Jock and his friends are at most a dozen or two people in the world who happen to wear kilts. Why on earth are so many people worrying about what these guys say? Were we to drive 30 miles to elsewhere in Scotland and ask similar questions of a different group of Highlands dwellers, we'd probably get different answers.

Jock knows what he and his friends and neighbors think. BUT...

1. Just because Jock lives in the Highlands, and
2. because he's a gentleman with *ahem* a number of years of experience,

does NOT mean that Jocks opinions and thoughts define what is, and is not "right to do" in terms of wearing a kilt, everywhere and any time in the entire world.

Cede the man the right to his opinions. Listen to what he says. Learn from what he says, because he knows a fair bit, eh?. But for heavens sake, the man doesn't sit at the right hand of God!

LITTLE STATEMENT OF FACT: I like Jock. I would be honored to share a dram with him and perhaps drop a line in one of his streams and share some baked salmon with the fellow, were I ever to get to Scotland. I respect Jocks opinions and experience. I recognize that I may very well learn something from Jock. But I'm not going to define every detail of how or when I wear a kilt, just to suit Jock and his friends' opinions.

......rather like how I love and respect my father, but I'm not going to live my life for the sole purpose of making him happy.

[Woodsheal]

Actually I answered a theoretical question about this not so long ago except my brother was the subject of example.

In truth it is down to my son to decide what he would do. As he was one of those(and his two brothers) who answered the F4T2 survey I think I can answer with some accuracy. In passing, I could not have answered accurately before the survey. I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

Should they all retain British citizenship then it seems that they would wear the kilt in the Highlands-----well until the children(my grand children) were old enough to decide for themselves.

An interesting view, but by no means universal. My dear friend Victor, WWII Royal Navy veteran and soon to turn 90, emigrated to the US from Scotland in the late '50s. A half-century later he still proudly (and impeccably) wears his kilt to various events (including kilt nights at the local pub!). His lovely wife Anne does not hesitate to don her tartan. Son Ken (totally "americanized" but proud of his heritage) owns and wears a kilt as well.

[McClef]

Jock, you do a very good job of showing an alternative point of view.

It's just I am concerned that my logic sees potential problems for the continued good health of kilt wearing and sometimes I do feel the need to challenge, hopefully in a respectful and friendly manner, some of your comments.

A good discussion over a wee dram would I am sure be delightful though.

[cessna152towser]

As a Scot I am happy to see people of other nations wearing the kilt, whether in a traditional tartan or in North American Utilikilt non-trad styles.
What does irritate me is people who play at being Scots and insist they know better than native Scots. I once spotted a guy at a highland games wearing a Cunningham tartan kilt and this being my family name I struck up a conversation with him. He turned out to be an American and was absolutely insistent that the tartan was Robertson and not Cunningham.

[RockyR]

As a Scot I am happy to see people of other nations wearing the kilt, whether in a traditional tartan or in North American Utilikilt non-trad styles.
What does irritate me is people who play at being Scots and insist they know better than native Scots. I once spotted a guy at a highland games wearing a Cunningham tartan kilt and this being my family name I struck up a conversation with him. He turned out to be an American and was absolutely insistent that the tartan was Robertson and not Cunningham.

I completely agree with you that numpties are numpties no matter what country they're from. America has more than our fair share.

One thing to note however... Just b/c one is a native born Scot does not mean that they're always correct in 'matters of the kilt' either. I believe that I know more than the common person about Kilts as it's my job. I've had several occasions where people from Scotland told me, in my own shop, (about jacket style names such as "Braemar", about tartan names, etc) that I didn't know what I was talking about. When I showed them tartan swatches from the mills (with names attached) and other websites who corroborated my facts, I was told that the mills must have it wrong in the swatch book, etc.

As another example, look at how many from Jock's survey knew / didn't know whether their kilt was pleated to sett or stripe. Look at last year's survey to find out how many were wrong!

Knowledge is the key, no matter who the person is and no matter the nationality, though being a native Scot and growing up immersed int he culture DOES give you an advantage. We who are outwith Scotland have to do our research / homework to catch up!

[creagdhubh]

As a Scot I am happy to see people of other nations wearing the kilt, whether in a traditional tartan or in North American Utilikilt non-trad styles.
What does irritate me is people who play at being Scots and insist they know better than native Scots. I once spotted a guy at a highland games wearing a Cunningham tartan kilt and this being my family name I struck up a conversation with him. He turned out to be an American and was absolutely insistent that the tartan was Robertson and not Cunningham.

Ugh, that would frustrate me to no end, Alex!

[Guinness>water]

I am pretty sure the kilt would be left at home and should he (and I presume his children would do the same but I am not sure how the procedure works) take American citizenship then I would not expect them to wear the kilt. I would cut my son some slack if he returned home on holiday, but I would not expect his children ever to wear the kilt.

That amazes me. I had no idea Scots thought of the kilt with such restriction. I figured yall would be proud that others carry on the tradition, specially your own blood!.

Wow.

*****Sorry, just saw Cessna152towser's reply. Didnt mean to speak for all Scots.******