"New" Clan MacTavish Dress Tartan

[MacGumerait]

"Dress" has become, at least in some circles, the term used to describe tartans with white fields most often worn by Highland dancers. A perusal of "Dress" clan tartan listings will bear this out. Our small clan has not had an official dress tartan for over 150 years, so MacTavish (and many Thompson) girls have had to choose another clan's tartan for competition. Our Chief has remedied that, with my thanks on the girls' behalf.

David , I like this tartan , I will have to admit that some dress tartans don't appeal to my eye and some do , ( just personal preference) but I do like this one .

Also , I get where you are coming from . You are letting us know that Clan MacTavish now has a dress tartan which was approved by the Clan Chief .

The fact that dancers often wear " dress tartans " was just a side note . MacTavish dancers now have a choice .

Other than that , I don't think there was a " trans-Atlantic divergence of definition " .

It didn't appear to me that you misunderstood the definition of " dress tartan " . Only pointing out that the MacTavish Clan now has a " dress tartan " and that it can be used by dancers if desired .

You can rest easy Jock , I don't think there is a muddle here .

[Jock Scot]

David , I like this tartan , I will have to admit that some dress tartans don't appeal to my eye and some do , ( just personal preference) but I do like this one .

Also , I get where you are coming from . You are letting us know that Clan MacTavish now has a dress tartan which was approved by the Clan Chief .

The fact that dancers often wear " dress tartans " was just a side note . MacTavish dancers now have a choice .

Other than that , I don't think there was a " trans-Atlantic divergence of definition " .

It didn't appear to me that you misunderstood the definition of " dress tartan " . Only pointing out that the MacTavish Clan now has a " dress tartan " and that it can be used by dancers if desired .

You can rest easy Jock , I don't think there is a muddle here .

Why is it that I am not convinced? But we shall see.

In passing, I quite accept that tartan, certainly any tartan that I can think of, can and is used for a multitude of purposes and I am the first to admit that the ladies do look splendid in their tartan dancing outfits.

[MacRobert's Reply]

I remain confused about the definition of a “dress tartan”. Growing up in Scotland in the 50’s the term “dress tartan” in my family referred to this red Robertson, which was generally worn at formal events:



In contrast to this "hunting" tartan, which was generally for day wear:



However the Scottish Register of Tartans lists this as “Robertson dress Hunting”:



The registration notes say: "Scottish Tartans Society calls this a 'Dress Hunting'. Other suggestion is that it is a Dalgliesh 'Dancers' Fancy'. See also #539 (original Scottish Tartans Authority reference) which it closely resembles."

Now I am even more confused!:?

So my question is this: does the term “dress” when applied to a tartan refer to one generally worn for formal events or to a tartan with a white field or to a tartan primarily for highland dancers? Or is there general confusion that we just have to live with?

(PS I seem to have attached a thumbnail that I can't delete)

[David Thorpe]

Why is it that I am not convinced? But we shall see.

I believe that is a question which only you can answer, Jock. Best of luck with that.

There are many instances of Scots in the colonies and elsewhere dispersed doing things slightly differently than they are done in the Highlands. This very forum contains a plethora of discussions of examples. Due to many factors such as climatic and general cultural differences, this stands to reason. I am not convinced that these differences always constitute a "muddle", nor any particular problem.

I am no expert, to be sure, but I believe that here in the US, in at least some competitions, dancers are required to wear "dress" tartans, at least for any kind of serious consideration. I have no idea whether this rule applies at competitions in Scotland. The girls of our small clan have had to heretofore wear the "dress" tartan of another clan in order to compete. Our Chief has remedied that situation, with my gratitude.

With sincere respect for your expertise, experience, willingness to share them and tolerance for occasional disagreement, I will now hunt down my roll of duct tape and attempt to close this big can of worms.

[Downunder Kilt]

"Dress" has become, at least in some circles, the term used to describe tartans with white fields most often worn by Highland dancers. A perusal of "Dress" clan tartan listings will bear this out. Our small clan has not had an official dress tartan for over 150 years, so MacTavish (and many Thompson) girls have had to choose another clan's tartan for competition. Our Chief has remedied that, with my thanks on the girls' behalf.

Does this mean that the MacTavish dress tartan (STA ref 1383) and had the blessing of the Clan Chief in 1998 (from notes on the tartan at the Scottish Register of Tartans "In 1998 it was agreed by Dugald MacTavish of Dunardry 26th Chief to be the 'dress' Clan tartan") was not really an "Official Dress Tartan"? If the Chief of my clan declares something to be official, then I say it's official until he says otherwise.

[David Thorpe]

It never ceases to amaze me...

[Downunder Kilt]

I am sorry if it seems like a can of worms, but there appears to be conflicting recollections of history. One statement is that the clan has not had a dress tartan for over 150 years, the other an offiical record that the 26th Clan Chief agreed it was the Clans dress tartan in 1998. I have no intention of insulting anyones integrity but this is how myths and misinformation is generated leading to confusion for future students of history

[David Dubh]

I wonder? I wonder, if we have another trans-Atlantic divergence of definition going on here? To me and most in the UK "dress" means formal, so when I hear of a "dress" tartan which to me, at least, means a formal evening dress tartan, for men in a kilt form. For example the MacLeod of Lewis(loud MacLeod) is the "dress"(formal) tartan for MacLeod of Harris and has absolutely nothing to do with female attire as such.

Thoughts anyone?

N
Now I maybe wrong here Jock, but I was under the impression that "dress" tartans came about from Queen Victoria, that a red based tartans was improper for a lady to wear. So the predominantly red was changed to be more white "dress Stewart" was born and other clans followed suite. I also think that the designation of a dress tartan with the dominant white in it makes sense in most people's heads because as an everyday tartan to wear it would show and get dirty more readily. So dress may be a formal wear tartan that was created by a woman
David

[Tam Piperson]

The idea of a predominantly white tartan probably stems from surviving examples of Highland ladies' dress, most notably the arisaid, which was generally a length of woven fabric featuring a white background with a tartan pattern, as seen in the one woven by Christina Young in 1726:

[figheadair]

The idea of a predominantly white tartan probably stems from surviving examples of Highland ladies' dress, most notably the arisaid, which was generally a length of woven fabric featuring a white background with a tartan pattern, as seen in the one woven by Christina in 1726:

See my comments in #12. This 1726 blanket was intended for domestic use and not to wear as an Erraisaid.