Weathered tartan question

**M. A. C. Newsome** · 27th June 13, 04:58 AM

As Dalgliesh was the first to come up with this particular color scheme in the 1940s, I would say "weathered" is other mills' designation for reproduction, not the other way around.

Certain conditions do allow for textiles to be preserved buried for quite some time. The Ulster tartan is a recreation made from an outfit preserved for over 300 years buried in peat in Dungiven. So under the right conditions, fabric can be preserved in this way.

But Peter's point is valid; we don't know where the original sample came from or how old it was. I think it is very likely true that the inspiration for the reproduction colors was an old sample of tartan. Beyond that, it becomes hard to say anything with certainty without documentation.

For those interested in more about the Dungiven outfit or Ulster tartan:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.230...21102474317287

**imrichmond** · 27th June 13, 09:20 AM

Recently returned expat Scot in an Aberdeen bar to Inspector Rebus: "I go away for fifteen years and, when I come back, they've invented all these ancient malts." This line is from the television version of Ian Rankin's Black and Blue, although it doesn't appear anywhere in the original novel. It seems that this same comment can be applied to a good many currently available tartans, particularly those categorized as "ancient", "reproduction" and "weathered". Scotland is exploiting to the max (and very successfully) the romantic aura with which popular perception surrounds much of its history. This is not intended as a criticism of current trends in tartan. Personally, I love my ancient MacKenzie kilt. I just find the parallel evolution of malt whisky and tartan -- i.e. the "rediscovery" of a probably non-existent past through the creation of supposedly historical artifacts -- over the last thirty years or so to be an interesting phenomenon. In a wider cultural context, it seems to me that it ties in with the enormous popularity of UK-produced nostalgic, "retro" television programs like Heartbeat, Foyle's War, Poirot mysteries, etc.

There has probably never been another time in history when kilt lovers had so great a choice of tartans or when malt whisky aficionados could select from so many versions of their favourite tipple -- Jim Murray's 2012 Whisky Bible lists 2800 single malts. Enjoy!

**TheOfficialBren** · 27th June 13, 01:12 PM

Thanks for clarifying, Matt.

Regarding textile preservation, my archaeology professor, Sue Alcock, was just lecturing about this very subject. Textile preservation, no matter the circumstances is always the exception rather than the rule. This is true of most organic material.

In bogs, as you mentioned, it really depends on the acidity of the soil, presence of moistures (and which sort), makeup of the textile, presence of oxygen and other gasses, animal activity, circumstances surrounding its interrment (deliberate or accidental, deliberate usually meaning a burial and grave goods are neary always buried with care and the purpose of long-term preservation), and also sheer dumb-luck!

The above list really applies to any situation where one might be investigating (or, if necessary, later excavating).

Wetter climates (like Scotland) are not ideal places to find organic material artefacts (like textiles) preserved for even 150 years, muchless two or more centuries. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen (it certainly does, as in the case described above) but it truly is rare.

Dryer climates usually (emphasis on 'usually') offer more ideal preservative conditions for all manner of artefacts (Petra, Egypt, Timbuktu). An exception is the following: it is rare to find wooden artefacts in Egypt (of any period but especially Ancient artefacts). The reason is because of termites.

Not questioning your statement, Matt. Just sharing a little insight that I have gleaned through my studies.

ith:

**unixken** · 27th June 13, 05:26 PM

The "modern" colors definitely have their place, and I own several kilts of high quality wool, in modern colors. But regardless of any inspiration, rationale, historical fact or pure fantasy claimed for the various alternate palettes, I really do LOVE the subdued tones and general "earthiness" of the alternate colorways! I've shared photos of two recent acquisitions particularly (an "ancient" and a "reproduction"), that have thrilled me to no end.

**TheOfficialBren** · 27th June 13, 06:22 PM

Plus one, Ken. Plus one indeed!

**Sir Didymous** · 28th June 13, 01:17 PM

I don't know much as to the origins of the weathered tartans, but I know I love they way they look. They just have a toned down sophisticated look to them. That is not to say that the others lack sophistication, I just like the weathered look. So I am currently saving for an 8 yarder in Ferguson weathered for use on my few dressy occasions a year.

**TheOfficialBren** · 28th June 13, 01:56 PM

Nice, Sir Didymous! I agree. Understated but elegant. Very classy, indeed. I look forward to seeing your tank when you get it.

**BoldHighlander** · 29th June 13, 02:01 AM

I too have always been a great fan of "reproduction" colours, as well as many of the so-called "ancient" colors.

A while back we had a conversation about Macdonell of Keppoch colours in WOB (that's Wilson's of Bannockburn). At the time Hothir Ethelnor had mentioned that he was interested in having a run of Macdonell of Keppoch done in either D.C. Dalgliesh reproduction/weathered or WOB colours. Both would be beautiful and I can't help but wonder if that project ever got legs? I would be most interested in such a project and wonder still if anyone knows if there are any photo samples of that tartan in either D.C. Dalgliesh reproduction/weathered or WOB colours?

While I like D.C. Dalgliesh's reproduction colours in the Macdonald tartan, I'm more partial to the WOB colours as seen in the sample that Peter emailed to me a couple years ago:

MacDonald: Wilsons of Bannockburn colours c1800

I think it'd make a lovely kilt!

Well, those are my thoughts, for what they are worth ... along with a look at my "Ancient" Macdonell of Keppoch kilt (photos really do not do the tartan justice!)

Cheers!

**Aussie_Don** · 8th July 13, 05:23 AM

This whole question of weathered/ancient/heritage/reproduction colours is
one that is a potential source of confusion for a newby to the kilted world
who is trying to properly honour his Scottish heritage.

For example, I read the following on the Clan Gregor (Macgregor) website:

Clan Gregor website tartan page

and some comments from Matt Newsome about this page:

Finally, Matt replied to a question from me with these pictures of the
chief of clan MacGregor in an ancient tartan. (I'd read the Clan chief's
comments and interpreted them as meaning that only the modern
colours were acceptable.)

Matt's Comment and pictures

As my head is spinning about all of this, and I suspect that I may not
be alone in my confusion, could I respectfully suggest a FAQ about
tartan colour schemes, possibly including suggestions of where to
find some of the larger clan's thoughts on their tartans.

I'll shut up now -- this has probably been discussed to death and I
may well be the only one confused.

As I said, thanks for reading.

-Don

**freddie** · 10th July 13, 09:54 AM

I just wish that Lochcarron didn't produce green as brown in their weathered colours. The predominantly red based tartans work really well and blue looks great, but a green tartan like Henderson for instance is just not right when rendered as brown. I prefer House of Edgar and Marton Mills' muted shades where green is green.