Day going to evening...

**English Bloke** · 10th August 13, 04:47 PM

Forgive me Bill, I might be a bit thick here but why on earth should a dinner jacket and black tie be referred to as "Saxon" ?

**KiltFitz** · 10th August 13, 06:06 PM

I am going to a wedding tomorrow where most of the men will wear kilts. Now, many are not staying at the hotel so they will likely wear a combination of black argyle with kilt and dress sporran and they will not have the option to change even if they were inclined to. On the other hand, the groom's party are all wearing the same hired outfit (don't ask me where this got started, I still don't understand it when most of them already have kilts but it seems to be the done thing at weddings and keeps the hire business going throughout the summer). They will wear the same outfit all day.

Since we are staying at the hotel, my partner will be changing her dress from a comfortable summery dress into evening dress for dinner. I plan to change when she does, from tweed argyle and vest into either my pc and waistcoat or regulation doublet and waistcoat (haven't decided yet but leaning towards the PC as it's wine coloured and a bit more festive). If I had no opportunity to change, however, I would likely go with black argyll and vest all day.

Now, I may get some stick from the others but it won't faze me. They know I enjoy wearing a variety of kilt outfits and weddings are a good opportunity to get wear out of outfits that might otherwise languish on the rail waiting for a call-up to active service.

**TheOfficialBren** · 10th August 13, 06:50 PM

Originally Posted by KiltFitz

I am going to a wedding tomorrow where most of the men will wear kilts. Now, many are not staying at the hotel so they will likely wear a combination of black argyle with kilt and dress sporran and they will not have the option to change even if they were inclined to. On the other hand, the groom's party are all wearing the same hired outfit (don't ask me where this got started, I still don't understand it when most of them already have kilts but it seems to be the done thing at weddings and keeps the hire business going throughout the summer). They will wear the same outfit all day.

Kiltfitz,

I have wondered about that, too. In times past one wore one's own kilt regardless of the wedding party's clan affiliation. Today it does seem that the trend is shifting toward matching/coordinating the entire wedding party. Here in California a kilted wedding would tend to follow that suit unless it were understood to be a strictly THCD affair. Around here it is not unheard of for the groomsmen to all wear the same (rented) tartan, PC, WHITE hose, and ghillie brogues.

I am hesitant to say it but it seems that perhaps some of our trends (yes, they are trends--not long-established traditions) might be creeping over to your side of the pond? Maybe not.

I can understand the matchy-matchy view over here. It's just "how it's done" in most people's day-to-day fashion over here. It's no surprise that it would carry over and balloon further in a wedding setting over here.

Disclaimer...please do not let the above statements push us further into the bloodbath we had earlier. If it does I will delete the entire post.

**KiltFitz** · 11th August 13, 02:12 AM

Originally Posted by TheOfficialBren

Kiltfitz,
I am hesitant to say it but it seems that perhaps some of our trends (yes, they are trends--not long-established traditions) might be creeping over to your side of the pond? Maybe not.

I can understand the matchy-matchy view over here. It's just "how it's done" in most people's day-to-day fashion over here. It's no surprise that it would carry over and balloon further in a wedding setting over here.

Disclaimer...please do not let the above statements push us further into the bloodbath we had earlier. If it does I will delete the entire post.

+ 1 Bren. I'd appreciate it too if no-one used this post for any transatlantic bitching. I thought the other post got downright silly and it put me off joining in.

Now, at the risk of being sexist here, I suspect a subtle female influence in the matching outfits. Frequently I hear of grooms hiring a tartan to match the bride's colour scheme. That's ridiculous, in my humble opinion. Why should I want my kilt to match the flowers and tablecloth? Or my wife beginning our life together by telling me what to wear? "Right lads, I know the kilts are a wee bit on the pink side, but she loves fuchsias, so get them worn" But many men (yes, even in Scotland) get the nerves when realising they will be on show in a kilt so the reinforcement of feminine encouragement (and, of course a subtle sales pitch down the hire shop) helps them to make these kind of decisions on matching tartans etc.

I've heard bizarre pseudo-historical justifications for this in kilt shops like "If you all wear the same tartan, it's like you're all part of the same clan" or "That's what people did in the past, so they could be recognised at gatherings". Just nonsense.

I'm not against the hire shops staying in business and I like that it promotes the development of new tartans but even if you forget clan affiliation, it's just nicer to see people wearing different tartan and bringing more of themselves out in their choice of dress.

A friend asked me to be an usher at his wedding next year. His best man and the rest of the groom's party will wear the same tartan (Although, at least one is his brother, and he is wearing his clan tartan, but I digress). I told him that's nice but I will wear my own kilt. It's a better kilt and I won't have to pay for the privilege of wearing a kilt.

Sometimes, the uniform approach is not the right one, unless you habitually wear a uniform, in which case you should by all means wear it whenever appropriate. But an idea I had is that instead of asking everyone to wear the same kilts, what about different tartans but the same jacket and tie. This would work particularly well with coloured jackets which seem to be far less popular. If I wanted my best man and ushers to stand out to other guests, I think having them wear green or blue or red jackets would serve that purpose nicely while still preserving the tradition. And the hire shops would get a wee turn too.

Any thoughts?

**Chas** · 11th August 13, 05:00 AM

Waistcoats and ties.

They take up next to no room when you have to travel, can be changed in two minutes tops and can totally change the look of an outfit.

Depending on situation and material they can either dress up or dress down, become part of the wallpaper or make a big splash.

**Spartan Tartan** · 11th August 13, 05:31 AM

I'm still wondering what everyone else is doing? If no one else will be changing due to the circumstances, it seems silly to think that someone would just because they are in a kilt... Nevertheless...

To follow my own thought, one of the joys of the kilt is the ease with which it can be worn at a variety of levels of dress. Others have already expressed a perfect solution (bring a jacket and tie to put on later in the day). It surely would be easy enough to add a tie and jacket. Starting with a plain black leather sporran, and you wouldn't even need to change that.

Now, the idea of wearing all matching tartans...that does ring of "matchy matchy" mentality which is typical of wedding parties. (i.e. all the men wear the same thing and the women wear the same dresses). If there are members of the party that do not own their own kilt, I can understand them hiring the same tartan (or not, for that matter). I would hazard a guess that most gents that get married in a kilt do not have their own kilt already. Some, and we see them here, learn about the kilt and endeavor to buy their own. I suspect they are the minority and that the vast majority of these gentlemen just go about hiring an entire kit. Additionally, I suspect they do likewise for the entire wedding party. Chances are, there might only be 1 among the "groom to be" friends that even owns their own kilt! I suspect at that point, there may be some influence from the bride (or even more so, the MOTHER of the bride) to have uniformity...just a guess based upon my own experience--I hope not to over generalize my own experience.

But I do like the idea of getting the same jacket in a colour/style that is less typical. I will have to remember that idea for when/if any of my close friends decide to get married in a kilt--of course, most are already married...so it could be an idea for vow renewals, I suppose??

Just to be sure we remain on topic... given the circumstances of the OP, I would just wear an nice button down shirt with my kilt and a plain black sporran to the morning events. I would bring my tweed jacket (probably vest--can always leave it off if later not desired) and my favorite tie to put on when the evening approached. Putting on a tie only requires 2 minutes in front of a mirror and done! Easy day.

However the OP decides to solve this, just be sure to have a great time!! Oh...and we DO love the pictures;-) It would be nice to see what the 'before' and 'after' ended up being.

**TheOfficialBren** · 12th August 13, 04:01 AM

KiltFitz,
Thank you, sir, for your reply. I think that you are right on the button! Also, the jacket idea is smashing!

Spartan Tartan and Chas, A Kyleism each. Excellent advice.

**KiltFitz** · 13th August 13, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by TheOfficialBren

KiltFitz,
Thank you, sir, for your reply. I think that you are right on the button! Also, the jacket idea is smashing!

Spartan Tartan and Chas, A Kyleism each. Excellent advice.

Thanks Bren, that's very kind of you. By way of reward, how about a wee pic of the recent wedding?

1119876_10151846874803383_2115971162_o.jpg

**MacLowlife** · 13th August 13, 08:03 PM

I agree with whoever first asked "what is everyone else doing?" because that is the key. If nobody can change, then everybody shows up looking like they will all day. My best guess is that it is better to look appropriate for the first part, then maybe a little underdone for the later parts. If some people are going to be showing up only for the later, more formal part, then I think a little on-the-fly upgrading is in order.

And here is my tip: A bow tie works all of the time. It looks jaunty by day and dressy by night. For the truly sneaky, it can be fitted into your sporran and you can switch from the vertical tie at the opportune moment. But for the more forthright, it works from the get-go.

Finally, all of you Scots who are just being pressed into dressing like the Fab Five or Six must now do what American groomsmen have had to do for a while. Nothing rankles a man who owns his own tuxedo quite so much as having to rent one in order to match the other ushers. Especially a cheesy rental one. If men were in charge of weddings, this would not happen. But they aren't (usually) and it does. So it goes.