Clan Heraldry: What you can and can't wear and display

**ASinclair** · 13th February 14, 11:04 AM

This is a very good article. Thanks for posting the link.

**neloon** · 13th February 14, 12:56 PM

EagleJCS,
"What is permitted is for a member of a clan to use the clan crest"
Exactly - a member of the clan - not any Tom, Dick or Harry which I think the article comes close to implying ("as many people as possible "). Admittedly, it is some years since any agency (individual or, more likely, corporate) has been taken to court for transgressing but it has happened.
Alan

**Carl** · 13th February 14, 05:27 PM

Happened as reccently as 2001-ish when David Ross, the 27th Chief of the Clan Ross went after Mohammed Fayed for displaying his arms on the gates of Mr. Fayed's estate (Balnagown).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...t-of-arms.html

**Steve Ashton** · 13th February 14, 06:29 PM

I have contacted the publisher of this article, ScotClans, and requested permission to re-publish it here.

I'll keep you posted if I hear back from them.

**ThistleDown** · 13th February 14, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by ctbuchanan

I can't speak for Dr. Durie. As for my reference, I was not aware that Bruce, Douglas etc. were technically not clans. At the clan villages here in the States they always appear to refer to themselves as such. Now, perhaps the clan society members are all aware of this, but I doubt it. My guess is it would be met with surprise and probably a few ruffled feathers.

Yes, those are the feathers that Dr Durie is referring to. Not to mix too many metaphors, but he is saying that the tail does not wag the dog. Eagle feathers belong to armigers and not to anyone else who just wants to wear them, 'clan' is a Highland term for extended family and does not refer to Lowland names such as Bruce and Douglas and their families and tenants, coats of arms belong to individuals and not to entire names, that sort of thing. No matter that all those things are done elsewhere in the world, they are not Scottish. Feathers may be ruffled by what he has written, but what he has written is tradition, reality and/or the law and those who are visiting Scotland need to pay attention.

**WVHighlander** · 20th February 14, 06:17 PM

Actually, the etymology of the word clan is from Gaelic/Scots Gaelic/Irish Gaelic which means family or children of, the word was also used albeit the Norse version in Viking culture. Now considering that several Lowland families are of Gaelilc/Celt/and Viking origins I would argue that the use of Clan is not only reserved for Highland Clans. The only reason one could make that argument is that the use of Clan fell out of being en vogue with the lowlands while it did not in the highlands. I have not talked to Bruce (aka Dr. Durie) about this lately but I think I have pretty valid argument.

That aside, Coats of Arms belong to the person and Chiefs can give permission for his/her Clan to wear their crest as a badge.

**ThistleDown** · 21st February 14, 12:19 AM

Actually in Scotland 'clan' refers to descendants of extended client groups in the Highlands and in the Borders. It is not a word 'reserved' for those in either geographical region, but it is considered as not pertaining to the families and tenants of Lowland names. For that reason Douglases, Hamiltons, and Bruces are not -- in Scotland -- considered 'clans', but Macdonalds, Mackenzies, Macgregors, Cunninghams, Kerrs and Scotts are.

**WVHighlander** · 21st February 14, 03:03 AM

So people above a geographic area and below a geographic area are Clans but in the middle are not??? Interesting. The next time I run into the 11th Earl of Elgin I will let him know that.....

**BCAC** · 21st February 14, 07:35 AM

See. Less than a week linked on this site and a few feathers are ruffled already!

**Nathan** · 21st February 14, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by WVHighlander

So people above a geographic area and below a geographic area are Clans but in the middle are not??? Interesting. The next time I run into the 11th Earl of Elgin I will let him know that.....

I know it sounds strange at first, but it is was it is. Or rather, it was what it was.

While you're correct about the etymology of the Gaidhlig word clann (meaning "children of" or "family"), you have to understand that the clan system was not how things were organized in the Inglis speaking lowlands. That's one of the reasons you hear reference to the House of Stuart and the House of Wallace rather than the Clan Wallace and the Clan Stuart.

Over the years, Lowland families have romanticised and adopted many Highland customs in the name of Scottish nationalism, notably tartan and kilts. Thus, in the diaspora, a lot of Lowland descended families erroneously perceive of themselves as descended from a clan.

Hollywood films like Braveheart that dress William Wallace like some kind of Roman/Viking/Pict/Highlander instead of the Lowlander he was only serve to further confuse matters.

The borders region's reiver clans were the exception to the Highland/Lowland cultural divide as they shared much in common with both groups due to their way of life.

This is not an assertion by Thistledown but is a statement of widely accepted historical fact with which, I have no doubt, the 11th Earl of Elgin is already familiar.