THCD nightmare by some drummers

[Jock Scot]

Well, frankly, if a person calls what these kids are doing a "TCHD nightmare" and then later says "couldn't be bothered to Google how to do it properly". Then yes, TCHD is being held up as some sort of standard. A standard where there is right and wrong. So yes, my use of the word rules is appropriate in this case.

I think, with the greatest of respect, particularly after all that work had been done by Colin and Nathan and others on defining THCD, that a mention of conventions, guidlines, and personal flair within a context would be far more appropriate and a suggestion of having a look at the new "sticky" that you yourself authorised would have been more helpful to the OP. But, I am happy to agree to differ.

[Steve Ashton]

Then, in response Jock, let me point you to another sticky which pre-dates the TCHD one by a long margin.



Ladies and Gentlemen of X Marks.

There seems to have been a lot of posts recently about "The right way to wear a kilt." or "What is or is not proper with the kilt."

Just so there are no mistakes about what X Marks is, let me state this as plainly as I can.

This is a kilt forum. It is where those who wear the kilt, appreciate the kilt, or can identify a kilt 2 times out of 3 without having to look in the back of the book, can gather and share our love of this garment we call the kilt.

It does not matter how you wear your kilt or what type of kilt you wear. It is not about what you wear with your kilt.

There are no, and will not be any, Kilt Kops on X Marks. A member can post photos of how they choose to wear their kilt. A member can ask other members for opinions on how their kilt looks. A member can state their preference for their chosen accessories.

But so far no one has been able to come up with a single definition of what a kilt is.
We have as many opinions on what is worn with a kilt as we have members.
It would be the height of egotism for one member to tell another that they are wearing their kilt wrong.

We have members from the Scottish highlands, the lowlands, from elsewhere in the UK, from N. America, Europe, S. Africa, Japan, and about everywhere else you can think of. We even have a member who wintered over in Antarctica with his kilt.

We are a community of kilt wearers. We share and respect the kilt in all its forms and in all the ways it can be worn. Of course we will sometimes disagree among ourselves but when someone outside of our community attempts to tell a member that they are wrong or cannot wear the kilt we band together in support.

Our community is made up of individuals. Individuals who are strong willed, opinionated, self-confidant, and even, sometimes, eccentric. Each has their own reason for wearing the kilt. Even our advertisers and staff participate here as individual members first.

As individuals we can share our opinions. We can offer advice from our own experiences and preferences. We can even state "I would not wear my kilt that way", but we always respect each other for their experiences and preferences.

This forum will welcome anyone who wears, or wishes to wear, the kilt.

Kilt Kops? Well, you're free to tell me that you would not wear your kilt a particular way. What you can't do is try to tell me I am wrong to wear my kilt my way.

Actually, I guess you can try. Just remember that if you do try, you had better bring friends, lots of friends. Because I've got 9,000 X Marks members on my side.

[Jock Scot]

Thats absolutely fine Steve and I have little arguement with the earlier sticky. However things have moved on and after several false starts, not without efforts from all involved we have now come up with an asked for(by you) definition of THCD. Are you saying that after a couple of months that you intend to ignore an Xmarks created term(THCD), much discussed----in good faith------ and after much deliberation a good definition of THCD has finally come to fruition. I know that some have regarded THCD of old as "carved in stone" rules and that has certainly frustrated you and many others including me at times. However we now have a new and I think pretty good definition of THCD, where it is clear that "rules" are not within the latest definition. In fact this new THCD "sticky" is very much along the lines of the former sticky( post above) which both stress choice.

So are you saying that you are now abandoning the "new THCD sticky"? I have to say that you appear to me to be heading down that route? If that is what you are saying, then fine, its your website after all, but I have to admit that I am getting mixed messeges here.

[Pipersson]

They wear the kilt how they consider it to be "cool" I suppose... BUT they wear it!!!

[Steve Ashton]

I'm not going to get into an argument or debate with you Jock.

The issue here, which you seem to be totally missing, is that members of this forum called how another person wears a kilt wrong.

But what you must (and I'm going to emphasis the word must) realize is that in doing so they acted like Kilt Kops.

Any time a member here, calls how another person chooses to wear their kilt, wrong I will not only speak out I will call them on it.

Things have not moved on, as you say. Things are the same as they have always been. Be respectful of others.

[Jock Scot]

You and I, Steve at least agree on the respect for others aspect.

The point that I was and am making is that you are wrong in stating THCD has rules. Some, I grant you, have mistakenly and frustratingly tended to interpret and use the old THCD definitions as having "rules". The point I am making is that after considerable thought and effort the NEW THCD definition, emphasises choice, not, as you were saying, "rules".

Its 2300 Hrs here and I am going to bed.

[MacEanruig]

If anything, by wearing kilts, these young men have shown that it's something cool to don on occasion. They may have chosen anything, but they at least chose the kilt. Nevertheless, great drum skills.

[Calgacus]

There was a thread very recently asking whether wearing a kilt with a Saltire on the back was potentially disrespectful, as it would lead to the wearer 'sitting on the flag', as it were. A thoughtful and considerate question, the answer to which highlighted the cultural differences between North America and Scotland. Yet, when I point out that I find the wearing of kilts backwards by some youths mildly disrespectful* to what is after all a cultural icon, I get told to get back in my box?? Can't you see that this is basically the same thing? You don't seem willing or able to try to see things from a different cultural perspective. Frankly, I expected better from the world's premier kilt website.

So wearing a kilt backwards, sorry, that has negative connotations... with the pleats at the front, is not 'wrong'?

Ok, I get it. I totally get it.


*Even 'mildly disrespectful' is probably too strong for how I actually feel about these lads, but it's not them that I have the issue with.

[Terry1948]

One's view of how to interpret the video depends upon how you approach it. If you are looking at the kilt as part of a stage performance for an accompaniment to drumming, then the kilt is a costume, and can be worn in any way that supports the performance. If you make the kilt center-stage and the rest of the performance is the accompaniment, then I think reviewing the appearance of the kilt to be something worth discussing. And then I would ask the question....was the kilt worn backwards on purpose? We don't know. Maybe they did "google" it, but wanted to make a statement of some kind. Maybe they were just being kids and having a good time, and aiming for the adulation of the young ladies in the crowd (ah, to be young again).

Sometimes theatrical performances are intended to challenge comfort levels, sometimes something that gets the audience (as is some members of a kilt forum) really upset is totally outside the intent of the performer.

I applaud the young men for their drumming and their wearing of clothing outside of the norm (no pants for them!), mentally tell myself -- remember, "pleaty part" goes in the back, and then look for something new to stew about.

[bwat]

So wearing a kilt backwards, sorry, that has negative connotations... with the pleats at the front, is not 'wrong'?

Ok, I get it. I totally get it.


*Even 'mildly disrespectful' is probably too strong for how I actually feel about these lads, but it's not them that I have the issue with.

You and I are of the same thinking and I honestly couldn't agree more. I don't have any great feelings of hurt or disgust, I'm just shaking the heid.

It's all just cultural differences from what I can see - just like your flag example. Some suspected cultural differences I've noticed in this thread and others:

- I think the definition of the word "respect" in North America is different to Scotland/rest of Europe. I don't think it is being disrespectful to someone to say they are in the wrong. Where I come from people aren't automatically "right" just because they have an opinion.

- The criticism found on the female attire threads and the value placed on a "family friendly" (a term I think I'm right in guessing is a synonym for "quite conservative") look is very American in my eyes. I find this more troubling than kilts on back-to-front as it seems quite controlling.

- The worship of the warrior class/police is very American and quite alien to me. Before people get upset at this I've got coppers and squadies in the close family. I was born in an Army hospital and I've spent some time as a reservist. I've nothing against the police or the armed forces.

That's just what I could come up with whilst my tatties are boiling. It is quite clear to me that this board is run according to North American sensibilities so every now and again the old world will feel a wee bit peeved. It's not such a big thing I suppose.