US ARMY tartan redesign?

**Jock Scot** · 17th February 17, 02:32 AM

As a mere observer in this conversation, I wonder if I could add a couple of thoughts that might assist?

Those of us that have been brought up with the idea that we wear one Clan tartan and one only AND have to sometimes, put up with a pretty dreadful tartan. It is what it is and we learn from a very early age not to comment on other people's tartans, a black eye was the usual result. People may have noted that I rarely comment on tartans, as it's one of those things that is not done.

David is so right the end result will be a plethora of new tartans that will probably be nothing but a commercial failure. So what to do? The British solved this problem probably more than a hundred years ago with their Regimental style ties, so in basic terms we have a Royal Navy tie, a Royal Air Force tie, both with variations to take into account a particular part of that service and then of course we have the swarm of assorted Regimental ties for the Army. It has always amazed me that the USA, who have always been so adept at spotting good ideas have not cottoned on to the idea more than they have.

Alright I can hear some of you saying "we can't do that we are Americans" , well you have borrowed the tartan idea and I do know that there are 82nd and 101st Airbourne ties about, so it has been done. And yes! You might not like the colour scheme of your Unit tie either, it will be what it is and you will wear it proudly, come what may.

**Geoff Withnell** · 17th February 17, 07:41 AM

And while we are not a regiment, there does exist an unofficial USMC "regimental" tie.

**Jock Scot** · 17th February 17, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Geoff Withnell

And while we are not a regiment, there does exist an unofficial USMC "regimental" tie.

Neither are the Royal Navy, or the Royal Air Force, Geoff. We are talking about Regimental style ties in general. The Regimental tie is not an issued piece of kit, it is a private purchase of the appropriate colours and style by members of a particular Unit, or retired members of a particular Unit to be worn with their "civvies". It is nevertheless, frowned upon for those not entitled to wear a particular Unit tie to wear one.

**davidlpope** · 17th February 17, 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by Geoff Withnell

And while we are not a regiment, there does exist an unofficial USMC "regimental" tie.

**Geoff Withnell** · 17th February 17, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by Jock Scot

Neither are the Royal Navy, or the Royal Air Force, Geoff. We are talking about Regimental style ties in general. The Regimental tie is not an issued piece of kit, it is a private purchase of the appropriate colours and style by members of a particular Unit, or retired members of a particular Unit to be worn with their "civvies". It is nevertheless, frowned upon for those not entitled to wear a particular Unit tie to wear one.

Oh, I am fully aware of the significance of the regimental tie. I made a good friend through a misunderstanding with one. I was at the "happy hour" of an international professional conference, when a fellow came up to me, greeting me very effusively, as if we were old friends. We I was surprised, he pointed at my tie (same as his) and said "But we are comrades in arms". I realized immediately that what JC Penney had sold me as a "traditional" style tie was this fellow's unit regimental tie. I immediately apologized, explained, took it off, and handed it to him - "I can't wear it any more, so you may as well have a spare." He bought me a drink, and we quite hit it off.

**48HofC** · 17th February 17, 12:39 PM

Jock, actually in some instances, regimental ties are issued....Every single pipe band in the British army issues them to members for wearing for competition,travel,etc.

**Steve Ashton** · 17th February 17, 01:28 PM

Ya know, I think many have totally missed the point of what I have tried to show.

The variants of the US Army Tartan we never intended to be a replacement for the one we already have. It was simply an exercise, an experiment if you will. Could a Tartan be designed that could incorporate small changes to reflect subgroups of the main one.

The US Army has different branches. While each service member wears the same uniform the branch is denoted with color. The Infantry branch uses light blue called Infantry Blue, Aviation a darker Ultramarine Blue. Cavalry use Yellow. Field Artillery use Scarlet.

This design was only done to see if a single Tartan could be woven and still be able to have one piece of fabric different from another. In the end the answer was "why bother". The cost would be prohibitive. So it exists as a computer design only. It has never been registered and no fabric has even been woven.

The Dress Blue Tartan on the other hand has a different story.
Prior to a Kilt Kamp one year I found that I was in need of a new kilt for myself.
I thought I had enough fabric in the Leatherneck Tartan to make one but found that what I actually had were two pieces from different weavers.
This meant that I needed to order more fabric. I figured it did not matter what design I ordered.

But looking at the Leatherneck Tartan I decided that, as it has never been one of my favorites, I could design my own, for my own personal use.

I started with the USMC Dress Blue uniform. I used the same colors in the same proportions. In the end I had a design that said "Marine Corp" to my eye. I did not and still do not care if others like my design or not. I ordered one special weave to make a kilt for myself and maybe have enough left over for anyone else who liked it.

Well, the result after I made my own kilt and began to wear it was that I have had so many Marines come up to me and say things like "I get it" that I have now had three runs of the design woven.

I'm not trying to replace the Leatherneck Tartan. I am not trying to make my design a commercial success. I don't care if anyone else ever decides that they would like to wear it.
I like it and will continue to wear it.

And that really is the end of this story.

**Tarheel** · 17th February 17, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the aviation mention by color Steve. The many disciplines within the Army does present a challenge, if adding all the colors in each branch variety, while designing a tartan. As neo also pointed out, is the time period of service. I was a "black boot" soldier trained by "brown boot" drill sergeants. Then, there is the overlap of jobs. I was Airborne trained, air medic, helicopter mechanic and door gunner. I still cringe when someone yells, "hey pickle-head" and will ride a bird to the ground regardless of jump school habits.

This will be a good exercise, though I think it will bog down by those of different age groups and mind sets.

**GrymJack** · 19th February 17, 07:44 AM

As a retired veteran of 30+ years and as an instructor training soldiers for another 15, I like the current pattern. If I was to design a new pattern it would be in OD green, desert tan and coyote brown. Just my opinion, although I tend to most agree with the folks who say leave it alone. Of course I realize what opinions are like, everyone has one.

GrymJack
CSM, USA, ret

**dcommini** · 21st February 17, 10:26 AM

I agree with many that it would be folly to change the tartan now. It's not my favorite tartan to wear, but I wear it with pride when I do. As for "branch" specifics - I have from time to time worn the MP regimental crest as a kilt pin with the US Army tartan, and I currently use my cross pistols as a tie tack (I removed the disk and just pushed it through the tie, I don't recommend doing this with a nice tie as it will put a hole in it).

The way I see it is that we're military, and we have plenty of ways to represent our service when wearing our branches specific tartan. I know the MPs at least have a website where you can buy different things, I'd be surprised if other Military Occupation Specialties did not as well.