Buckles or Laces?

[McCracken140]

Here are a few photos to illustrate.

With a Doublet

With a Prince Charlie

With an Argyll

A great post to illustrate the diversity of looks which can be achieved with the exact same outfit while changing only the jacket.

In particular I like how you dragged up the PC onto the same level as a doublet. 👍🏻

[230Ball]

I agree! Very smart!

[Hirsty]

The general rule of thumb for hose are black for funerals and white for pipers. But I have seen both at weddings which is particularly shocking in regards to black as it is considered bad luck and bad form.

Personally I like hose to match some colour in the tartan, however, a contrasting colour can be quite striking.

As for your shoes, lace ups can be very smart, but buckle tend to be very high end black tie or white tie.

I always go for the old adage that is better to be over dressed than undressed.

[Jock Scot]

..................

I always go for the old adage that is better to be over dressed than undressed.

I prefer the old adage of: "If you cant dress properly(appropriately) for an event, then don't go."

[Randy McIntosh]

The general rule of thumb for hose are black for funerals and white for pipers.

Well that makes no sense.

I don't own black nor white hose and I am a long time kilt wearer and piper.
I've attended many a funeral and wedding kilted with and without my pipes and have never witnessed that colour rule.

As to buckles or laces, I much prefer laces.

[Hirsty]

Well that makes no sense.

I don't own black nor white hose and I am a long time kilt wearer and piper.
I've attended many a funeral and wedding kilted with and without my pipes and have never witnessed that colour rule.

It may make no sense to you but it is the tradition.

White tends to be for pipe bands (although not all wear white) but can also indicate rental.

Wearing black hose at a wedding could cause offence and may result in someone having a word in your lug about it.

The caveat is that all things change and it depends upon the people - I was at a wedding and the groom, who plays bass in a death metal band, was wearing a black shirt, jacket, kilt, hose, and brogues. In fact he would have been completely invisible at night if it wasn't for the fact that he's a peel-wally ginger and his legs are whiter than a ghost's.

[OC Richard]

Are buckle brogues acceptable footwear with the Prince Charlie jacket or are they reserved for the doublet?

If we're talking Traditional Highland Dress, buckled brogues are de rigueur for Evening Dress.

There are a number of traditional Evening Dress jacket styles, the oldest being the Doublet and Argyll (the Victorian standards) then c1910 the Prince Charlie coatee, then c1930 the Montrose and Kenmore.

In traditional Highland Evening Dress full tartan or diced hose and buckled brogues are "correct".

Though it's not necessarily a situation of "buckles OR laces" because putting nonfunctional buckles on Ghillie ties goes back to the mid-19th century.

Here, in a vintage catalogue, are "buckling brogues" and "lacing brogues" (what we call Ghillies) both with decorative nonfunctional buckles added at the toes, for Evening Dress



(Note that only black brogues are offered for Day Dress.)

white hose are for weddings and black are for funerals...

Well, black and white selfcoloured/solid/plain hose are recent inventions, so one can't really speak of "tradition" regarding them. All selfcoloured hose are for Day Dress, and any colour is as suitable as any other for any occasion Day Dress is called for.

In Victorian times "Day" hose were grey, brown, taupe, or a dull brownish red, if MacLeay is to be believed. (I think he is.) By the mid-20th century "Day" hose were commonly made in beige, Lovat blue, and Lovat green. Nowadays they're in an amazing array of colours including at least five different blues (navy blue, sky blue, St Andrews blue, Royal blue, ancient blue).

BTW in the old days diced and tartan hose were worn with Day Dress as well as Evening Dress.

My favourite image of Victorian hose is this one, tartan hose in colours completely different from that of the rest of the outfit, but oddly co-ordinating!

having spent three decades in uniform my mind is somewhat calibrated along those lines...

We have to keep in mind that traditional civilian Highland Dress is not a uniform, though one might think so when attending an American Scottish event and seeing a roomful of gents in identical black Prince Charlies.

It's sad, really, how the black Prince Charlie has exerted an inexplicable hegemony over the other traditional Evening Dress jacket styles.

There was much more freedom and variety in late Victorian Highland Dress! Though there were only two main jacket styles (Doublet and Argyll) each was seen in a dazzling number of patterns. One almost gets the sense of each jacket being unique, and perhaps they were!

A subset of traditional Highland Dress is the dress of Highland Pipe Bands, and at any given time pretty much all the good competition Pipe Bands in the world dress the same.

In the 1980s the gleaming pure white hose fad took off. Then around 2010 they all started wearing black or other dark colours.

Now it's anything but white: black, navy blue, and charcoal grey mostly. Dark colours.

Here are a number of the world's top pipers dressed for an Evening function. As you see half are wearing selfcoloured hose, which would have been a big no-no up until the late 20th century. All are in black, all are in Prince Charlies except for the wonderfully dapper Gordon Walker! Who is also the only one wearing shoe buckles, which would have been expected of all, in the old days.

[Tobus]

So then can anyone provide a comprehensive list of what would be acceptable within tradition for footwear with black tie?

Are regular polished black brogues (not ghillie brogues) acceptable? Polished black cap-toe Oxfords?

[OC Richard]

It may make no sense to you but it is the tradition.

As far as black hose for funerals, black hose are a fairly recent thing.

Here is a Scottish funeral a few years ago, when black hose were at their height of popularity, and yes some people are wearing them (or navy blue hose, which often look black on screen). Most are wearing Lovat and grey. You do see some white hose.

https://vimeo.com/153830714

White tends to be for pipe bands (although not all wear white) but can also indicate rental.

Offwhite/cream hose came into style, as far as I can see, around 1970. They became very popular with Kilt Hire shops and Pipe Bands.

Then in the 1980s pure gleaming white hose became a Pipe Band fad, and if you were wearing offwhite you were announcing to the judges and the other bands that your band didn't get the memo.

Then around 2010 white hose suddenly became gauche in the Pipe Band world, and black became the new white.

The Pipe Band hose thing can be shown by the dress of the world's top bands, Grade One:

2006: White 11, Grey 2, Black 1
2014: White 3, Grey 3, Black 9, Blue 4
2018: White 0, Grey 6, Blue 11, Green 1

So today you don't see white hose with the leading Pipe Bands, and most of the lesser bands the world over copy them.

Wearing black hose at a wedding could cause offence

That's fascinating! How quickly a "tradition" can form!

I just now looked over some UK kilt hire shops and Scottish wedding "style guides" and they show plenty of black hose:

https://www.scottishweddingdirectory...it-for-grooms/

This Glasgow kilt hire shop shows black (or perhaps extremely dark grey?) on their wedding page:

https://www.macgregorandmacduff.co.uk/wedding-kilt-hire

This Edinburgh kilt hire shop is mostly doing black hose

https://www.bowdenskilts.co.uk/outfit-gallery

This is a sample wedding photo from a current Edinburgh kilt hire shop

[Tobus]

I've never heard of this tradition of black hose causing offence at weddings. Granted, I don't live in Scotland, but having been on this forum for almost 10 years and having seen probably hundreds of discussions of wedding attire with input from Scots of all persuasions, I would be surprised that such a tradition had never been mentioned. Not that I have reason to doubt Hirsty's experience with it, but I'm wondering if it's a very regional thing, or perhaps just a tradition within certain social circles?