Hey Rocky, Big Question.

[Dreadbelly]

I'm a little confused by your idea of a great kilt. You complaine that some people wear poorly made ones, and seem to be looking to someone to make one properly. A great kilt is just a very large piece of fabric, no sewing (unless you need to join two pieces of fabric together to make it wide enough) and is pleated by the wearer. check out http://www.geocities.com/dougalmacl/kilt_making.html
My first kilt was a great kilt, in the Aberdeen tartan that was woven specially for me (try finding Aberdeen, you can't with out a special order). I think that what your seeing is that people either don't know how, or don't take the time to put it on right.

Adam

I personally don't want to fuss with spending 30 minutes to an hour properly pleating and wrapping a great kilt, laying it out on the floor, and rolling my self up like a sausage in a biscuit. No offense. It's just not practical. I have seen a few great kilts that are decent enough looking that you can just "put on" but the pleating on those looks funky, and over all I believe those are made just to be costumes. I want something I just put on, throw the wrap over my shoulders in what ever fashion I choose for that day, and just go. And I have seen some very nice great kilts made just that way but the cost is insane, plus, the ones I have seen are wool, dry clean only, and cost so much that I personally would never be able to afford one or wear one.

I am not one for ironing or spending a lot of time getting dressed. Rocky, I believe, understands that. I love the little blurb on his site about the Philabeg being designed for the lazy guy. I want a great kilt based on the same principles. Throw it on and go. If it gets dirty, no panic, no fuss, just wash it. It's not that I am lazy... It's that I am a guy... A man. I want to wake up and be ready to do what ever in 15 to 20 minutes tops. Not spend an hour or two or three getting ready.

I feel the great kilt has the potential to be a simple practical garmet.

[Colin]

I'm a little confused by your idea of a great kilt. You complaine that some people wear poorly made ones, and seem to be looking to someone to make one properly. A great kilt is just a very large piece of fabric, no sewing (unless you need to join two pieces of fabric together to make it wide enough) and is pleated by the wearer. check out http://www.geocities.com/dougalmacl/kilt_making.html
My first kilt was a great kilt, in the Aberdeen tartan that was woven specially for me (try finding Aberdeen, you can't with out a special order). I think that what your seeing is that people either don't know how, or don't take the time to put it on right.

Adam

I personally don't want to fuss with spending 30 minutes to an hour properly pleating and wrapping a great kilt, laying it out on the floor, and rolling my self up like a sausage in a biscuit. No offense. It's just not practical. I have seen a few great kilts that are decent enough looking that you can just "put on" but the pleating on those looks funky, and over all I believe those are made just to be costumes. I want something I just put on, throw the wrap over my shoulders in what ever fashion I choose for that day, and just go. And I have seen some very nice great kilts made just that way but the cost is insane, plus, the ones I have seen are wool, dry clean only, and cost so much that I personally would never be able to afford one or wear one.

I am not one for ironing or spending a lot of time getting dressed. Rocky, I believe, understands that. I love the little blurb on his site about the Philabeg being designed for the lazy guy. I want a great kilt based on the same principles. Throw it on and go. If it gets dirty, no panic, no fuss, just wash it. It's not that I am lazy... It's that I am a guy... A man. I want to wake up and be ready to do what ever in 15 to 20 minutes tops. Not spend an hour or two or three getting ready.

I feel the great kilt has the potential to be a simple practical garmet.

I take that to mean that you want something that looks like a great kilt, but that is not a great kilt. While I support the direction you seem to be headed, I too am a bit confused. It seems like you don't want anything traditionally pretaining to the great kilt (wool, the work, drycleaning, etc), but would prefer a low cost, time-effecient solution that will give the illusion of a great kilt. I do like the suggestion of a velcro attatched upper portion added to a philabeg (would look too wrong added to a kilt with a traditional look and buckles IMHO). That would give you the option of a small kilt look, of a great kilt look. Is that what you are getting at?

[gmcdavid]

I take that to mean that you want something that looks like a great kilt, but that is not a great kilt. While I support the direction you seem to be headed, I too am a bit confused. It seems like you don't want anything traditionally pretaining to the great kilt (wool, the work, drycleaning, etc), but would prefer a low cost, time-effecient solution that will give the illusion of a great kilt. I do like the suggestion of a velcro attatched upper portion added to a philabeg (would look too wrong added to a kilt with a traditional look and buckles IMHO). That would give you the option of a small kilt look, of a great kilt look. Is that what you are getting at?

Something like http://www.druidskiltsandcelts.com/K...ent_kilts.html ?

(You can have the pleats permanently sewn in--for an extra charge).

Note 1: I have not actually seen one of these in person--just what is on the website.

Note 2: AFAIK, there is no historical basis for this garment. It is a modern invention to, as you said, "give the illusion of a great kilt."

Glenn

[Dreadbelly]

I'm a little confused by your idea of a great kilt. You complaine that some people wear poorly made ones, and seem to be looking to someone to make one properly. A great kilt is just a very large piece of fabric, no sewing (unless you need to join two pieces of fabric together to make it wide enough) and is pleated by the wearer. check out http://www.geocities.com/dougalmacl/kilt_making.html
My first kilt was a great kilt, in the Aberdeen tartan that was woven specially for me (try finding Aberdeen, you can't with out a special order). I think that what your seeing is that people either don't know how, or don't take the time to put it on right.

Adam

I personally don't want to fuss with spending 30 minutes to an hour properly pleating and wrapping a great kilt, laying it out on the floor, and rolling my self up like a sausage in a biscuit. No offense. It's just not practical. I have seen a few great kilts that are decent enough looking that you can just "put on" but the pleating on those looks funky, and over all I believe those are made just to be costumes. I want something I just put on, throw the wrap over my shoulders in what ever fashion I choose for that day, and just go. And I have seen some very nice great kilts made just that way but the cost is insane, plus, the ones I have seen are wool, dry clean only, and cost so much that I personally would never be able to afford one or wear one.

I am not one for ironing or spending a lot of time getting dressed. Rocky, I believe, understands that. I love the little blurb on his site about the Philabeg being designed for the lazy guy. I want a great kilt based on the same principles. Throw it on and go. If it gets dirty, no panic, no fuss, just wash it. It's not that I am lazy... It's that I am a guy... A man. I want to wake up and be ready to do what ever in 15 to 20 minutes tops. Not spend an hour or two or three getting ready.

I feel the great kilt has the potential to be a simple practical garmet.

I take that to mean that you want something that looks like a great kilt, but that is not a great kilt. While I support the direction you seem to be headed, I too am a bit confused. It seems like you don't want anything traditionally pretaining to the great kilt (wool, the work, drycleaning, etc), but would prefer a low cost, time-effecient solution that will give the illusion of a great kilt. I do like the suggestion of a velcro attatched upper portion added to a philabeg (would look too wrong added to a kilt with a traditional look and buckles IMHO). That would give you the option of a small kilt look, of a great kilt look. Is that what you are getting at?

Ding ding ding!

This is the garmet of simple men, shepherds, and common men. Not to mention frugal Scotts. While I have no problem with the old style great kilt, I feel that like other kilts, it can be modernized or modified slightly to make it practical to the modern age while still paying respect to it's traditional roots. Not an illusion though. That doesn't seem right somehow. Is a modern Philabeg or little kilt that uses velcro, has sewn down pleats, and is made from PV for practical purposes an illusion? Would Rocky or Bear's kilts that have a somewhat modernized touch to them be an illusion? I see what you are saying, I just disagree about the word used to describe it.

Folk on these boards, a lot of them hike, or do outdoorsy stuff. The kilt, being the practical garmet that it is, should do more then just cover their ****. A warm wrap, a quick hood, a garmet that changes to meet the demands of it's wearer. Is that not the very essense of what a kilt should be? It was a blanket, a piece of clothing, a protective head covering, a uniform, it was everything it's wearer desired it to be. How nice would it be if somebody was out hill walking, on a chilly day, and it suddenly starting raining cats and dogs. (Don't step in a poodle) It would be great if your kilt had a swiss army knife aspect. Just whip that wrap around into a hood and a poncho like covering for your shoulders.

I mean no disrespect to the roots of the great kilt, I would like to see it brought into the modern age a bit more, like many of the other neo-traditional kilts. Not that Rocky would offer a camo kilt, but what about some of the other kilt makers (Like PK) offering a neo-traditional camo great kilt for hunters. A highly configurable garmet that fills the needs of the wear as the situation demands. A traditional great kilt, made from wool, dry clean only, costing hundreds of dollars, is not ideal for these situations.

More men would wear them if they were made for more situations to be worn. See what I am saying? It would be like the little kilt slowly gaining acceptance because so many people have worked so hard to make it a modern practical wash and wear easy to care for garmet. I honestly believe there could be a huge demand potential for a product that doesn't actually exist. Seriously. A lot of hunters, hikers, and outdoorsmen would most likely go nuts over something like this. In camo or army duc canvas. Traditionalists would go for tartans.

Am I right or am I crazy? Probably a mix of both.

But I know I would buy one... And probably keep buying them. I am a pragmatist. I love all things practical. And this just screams practical.

[Colin]

I take that to mean that you want something that looks like a great kilt, but that is not a great kilt. While I support the direction you seem to be headed, I too am a bit confused. It seems like you don't want anything traditionally pretaining to the great kilt (wool, the work, drycleaning, etc), but would prefer a low cost, time-effecient solution that will give the illusion of a great kilt. I do like the suggestion of a velcro attatched upper portion added to a philabeg (would look too wrong added to a kilt with a traditional look and buckles IMHO). That would give you the option of a small kilt look, of a great kilt look. Is that what you are getting at?

Something like http://www.druidskiltsandcelts.com/K...ent_kilts.html ?

(You can have the pleats permanently sewn in--for an extra charge).

Note 1: I have not actually seen one of these in person--just what is on the website.

Note 2: AFAIK, there is no historical basis for this garment. It is a modern invention to, as you said, "give the illusion of a great kilt."

Glenn

Those are pretty reasonalbe prices. plus the pleats can be sewn in for $50. not bad. I just don't know how well polyviscose will be to serve as a hood in the rain. I have worn my kilts in the rain numerous times, but I haven't relied on them to keep me dry or protect me from the elements. Maybe they will, who knows.

Personaly, as someone that lives in a very rainy climate, I would rather have a nice gortex jacket and my tweed hat. But than again, I am not one for great kilts. Good luck in your endeavor and let us know how it runs out.

[Raphael]

If you are serious about using the Great Kilt to protect you from the elements, perhaps, you should be looking in getting a kilt made of Goretex

[Dreadbelly]

Gortex might be fine and good on occasion, but it does not keep you dry as advertised. I have a gortex pullover coat. And I can get plenty wet under the coat in a real storm where the rain comes sideways, topways, and even coming upwards. My serape made of llama hair on the other hand... While I still get wet, I stay warm and mostly comfortable. After getting drenched while wearing gortex, it actually holds the water in, which is a real mess. It seems impossible to get dry under the gortex, but that could be just me. Have to yank the pullover off, which means I am now wet and cold. Not my favourite combo. Llama hair serape breathes, dries quickly, and allows me to dry quickly while I wear it. Being a loose floppy dangling sort of garmet, I can whip some of the water out of my serape, or even wear it a different way to allow it to dry better. Based on my experiences with this loose flowing garmet, I believe that a great kilt and it's wrap portion could in fact, function in much of the same way. For those wondering, a serape is a hooded poncho wrap type garmet.

I am not 100% sure how PV functions under these conditions, but from what little I have read it should perform somewhat well. Maybe quite good, but I would have to see it in action my self. I don't think a gortex kilt would be all that great really.

On the other hand, I would be curious about how an oilskin kilt would perform. Would that be the Aussie-kilt? My duster is made from oilskin. Works like a charm. But it's hot, heavy, and kind of bulky.

[macwilkin]

Doc,

Everything that you described in your post about "modernizing" the great kilt is what the original intent and purpose of the "traditional" great kilt was -- in other words, if it isn't broke, then don't fix it.

Read this quote from George Buchanan, written in 1581, about Highlanders:

Their ancestors wore plaids of many colours, and numbers still retain this custom but the majority now in their dress prefer a dark brown, imitating nearly the leaves of the heather, that when lying upon the heath in the day, they may not be discovered by the appearance of their clothes; in these wrapped rather than covered, they brave the severest storms in the open air, and sometimes lay themselves down to sleep even in the midst of snow.

From: www.albanach.org

mean no disrespect to the roots of the great kilt, I would like to see it brought into the modern age a bit more, like many of the other neo-traditional kilts. Not that Rocky would offer a camo kilt, but what about some of the other kilt makers (Like PK) offering a neo-traditional camo great kilt for hunters. A highly configurable garmet that fills the needs of the wear as the situation demands. A traditional great kilt, made from wool, dry clean only, costing hundreds of dollars, is not ideal for these situations.

But, Doc, again, the "traditional" great kilt is designed for these very situations. Remember, that as you stated, this was the garment of the common man of Scotland, who wore it almost everyday in far harsher climes & conditions than we ever do today. Remember that these folks did not have dry cleaners, and that wool is a very versitile and practical garment -- look how many years armies have used wool for uniforms, because it stands up to most any kind of weather, it "breathes", etc. I can vouch for that first-hand for all of the wool I wore during ten years of Civil War reenacting.

I see your point, but the great kilt really doesn't need "modernisation" -- it does everything you have described.

Cheers,

T.

[Dreadbelly]

It does indeed do all of that.

But, who would actually wear a 500 or 1000 dollar kilt out into the bush?

That's my main concern here.

I would not. Neither would many others.

I do see what you are saying.

I know all about old kilt survival methods, having read bunches of them. My favourite is how they would dip their kilts in water before going to sleep on bitterly cold freezing nights. The water would actually make the wool spread out a bit, expand, tightning the weave and making sleeping in it considerably warmer. But I bet it was COLD putting it on at first. I even learned how Scottish medics could make a stretcher from a wounded man's kilt and his back pack frame or two during the war. Now that's practical.

All I am asking for is simple. Lower cost, wash and wear. And not having to roll around on the floor for half an hour or more to get dressed. Not having to grab an iron to get decent looking pleats. I don't even own a good iron. I can wear a 200 dollar PV kilt outside in the rain on a windy day and not worry. I can't wear a kilt costing hundreds of dollars outside in the rain on a windy day and not worry.

Some people will get it, others wont. That's ok. And I completely understand that the kilts from a long time ago, the grandaddies of the traditionals could with out a doubt cut the mustard. Modern day however, kilts are expensive. I am but a mere peasant. I seek a cost effective solution for what I want it to do.

[Colin]

It does indeed do all of that.

But, who would actually wear a 500 or 1000 dollar kilt out into the bush?

That's my main concern here.

I would not. Neither would many others.

I do see what you are saying.

I know all about old kilt survival methods, having read bunches of them. My favourite is how they would dip their kilts in water before going to sleep on bitterly cold freezing nights. The water would actually make the wool spread out a bit, expand, tightning the weave and making sleeping in it considerably warmer. But I bet it was COLD putting it on at first. I even learned how Scottish medics could make a stretcher from a wounded man's kilt and his back pack frame or two during the war. Now that's practical.

All I am asking for is simple. Lower cost, wash and wear. And not having to roll around on the floor for half an hour or more to get dressed. Not having to grab an iron to get decent looking pleats. I don't even own a good iron. I can wear a 200 dollar PV kilt outside in the rain on a windy day and not worry. I can't wear a kilt costing hundreds of dollars outside in the rain on a windy day and not worry.

Some people will get it, others wont. That's ok. And I completely understand that the kilts from a long time ago, the grandaddies of the traditionals could with out a doubt cut the mustard. Modern day however, kilts are expensive. I am but a mere peasant. I seek a cost effective solution for what I want it to do.

As previously pointed out by gmcdavid http://www.druidskiltsandcelts.com/K...ent_kilts.html

The great wool kilts can be bought on here for $159 for 9 yards. The most expensive wool version in $375, not near the $500-$1000 that can be paid for a formal small kilt.