Stuart Erskine quote in and out of context

[Jock Scot]

There is also another side of the coin here and the "garage cleaning" comment is very pertinant. .............. On the other side of the coin is....... Overdressing for an occasion and with kilt attire that is quite easy to do. I am not going to get mired in detail here , but we see it here on this website regularly.

[kilted2000]

To be fair, people of 1850 would find people in the 1940s dressed inappropriately. Tastes and attitudes change through the generations and people have been saying versions of ‘kids these days’ for centuries. While I personally prefer the more traditional styles, its a personal preference. Someone in 1901 might say the non stiff/ attached shirt collars are unsuitable and people aren't showing respect for others or themselves. It's all relative.

[Janner52]

To be fair, people of 1850 would find people in the 1940s dressed inappropriately. Tastes and attitudes change through the generations and people have been saying versions of ‘kids these days’ for centuries. While I personally prefer the more traditional styles, its a personal preference. Someone in 1901 might say the non stiff/ attached shirt collars are unsuitable and people aren't showing respect for others or themselves. It's all relative.

Fashion has changed over the years and clothing has become more comfortable and appropriate for the weather conditions. e.g. men are no longer wearing three piece suits with long underwear in summer weather, which makes absolute sense, but clothing remained reasonable smart. However, over the last 20 years or so standards have dropped to total slobbishness for some.

[Jock Scot]

Fashion has changed over the years and clothing has become more comfortable and appropriate for the weather conditions. e.g. men are no longer wearing three piece suits with long underwear in summer weather, which makes absolute sense, but clothing remained reasonable smart. However, over the last 20 years or so standards have dropped to total slobbishness for some.

Or-------------dress to excess. Usually at weddings and formal evening functions.

[jsrnephdoc]

Or-------------dress to excess. Usually at weddings and formal evening functions.

Jock, I'm a bit puzzled by this post. Is one overdressed if one wears formal wear to an event where the dress code is "formal?"

I suspect that a good many of us frequent this very site partly because we're troubled by the "thong sandals, T-shirts, and baggy shorts that barely cover the butt crack are fine for every event" practice so pervasive today that others have critiqued in this very thread. I'm certain you're not endorsing that behavior, but I'd also guess that many of us approaching the time when we'll need 3 digits to list our ages in years remember fondly (as OCR does) a time when "looking good" was appreciated, even honored.

I know that after I lost EVERY BIT of clothing that wasn't on my back at the moment in a wildfire conflagration back in 2017, one of my first "happy" aftermath experiences was visiting a men's ready-to-wear shop to replace 2 business suits and an overcoat. But, in retirement, I almost have NO reason to wear any of those. Of course, one reason for that is an evolution in my own concept of what "looking good" actually means. So, if it's "formal" I won't rent a tuxedo (I DID own one pre-fire and needed it at least once a year, but knew I'd never need one again once I acquired my Prince Charlie), and if the occasion is "business dress" I'll come in an Argyll up top of a kilt, day sporran and brown "Wing-tips."

I don't think any of that is "dress to excess." Now, I AM careful not to insult someone who knows by sporting heraldry I didn't earn or adding a dirk to my outfit. Indeed, most often I stuff my little plastic T-Rex-head ball point pen into my kilt hose instead of a real Sgian dubh, partly to see if anyone notices, but also because I don't want to set off metal detectors and be refused admission to some public event.

[Jock Scot]

Jock, I'm a bit puzzled by this post. Is one overdressed if one wears formal wear to an event where the dress code is "formal?"

.

Again you mis-understand me. Of course one wears formal attire to formal events, but, not all formal events require the same style of clothing. It is the unnecessary add ons--------tartan bow ties for example------------ that some wear with their kilt attire, that I am referring to. Difficult, sometimes, to define and it does depend on the event , but..................

[Troglodyte]

I am certain many people fail to understand the difference between formal and smart, and clean and smart.

The recent Burns' supper in our glen (actually, it was a lunch as it was held at lunchtime) saw a strange assortment of outfits. The ladies were generally well turned-out in skirts or dresses as they might be if going to a party.

There were about half-a-dozen men a-kilted in usual daywear kit with tie and tweeds as you would expect, but the number who walked in looking as if they had come in from a hike, with clumpy boots, 'technical' trousers, parkers etc, left me astonished. The event was a sit-down meal, with music and dancing after in a hall that is the venue for smart wedding receptions - all very Monarch of the Glen.

Failing to dress for the occasion is an insult to the host or organisers, I always feel, and demonstrates a lack of self-respect and indifference to others.

The foyer of the museum where I volunteer, has a larger than life mural made up of photos from the archive, chosen to give an impression of past life in the glen. This features sheep-shearing c1930, and the shearer is seen in the thick of action in estate tweed suit, collar and tie. Others are peat-cutting and tattie-picking, and the men can be seen in serge suits, corduroys, flannels and tweeds, again with collar and tie. The shearer has removed his jacket and rolled-up his shirt-sleeves, as sheep-wrangling is heavy work.

I often point this out to visitors, as it if fun to watch their response, as their mind processes the image, The younger generations (those younger than 40) stare in bewilderment at tweeds being worn for their original purpose of work-wear, but the wearing of tie 'when they don't have to' is totally beyond their ken. Older ones will comment with something like 'My father always wore a tie and never left the house without a hat.' Clean and smart, in other words, but not formal or over-dressed.

[OC Richard]

There were about half-a-dozen men a-kilted in usual daywear kit with tie and tweeds as you would expect, but the number who walked in looking as if they had come in from a hike, with clumpy boots, 'technical' trousers, parkers etc, left me astonished. The event was a sit-down meal, with music and dancing after in a hall that is the venue for smart wedding receptions...

Ha! Welcome to my world.

I know, I know...it's California...

But still...when I'm piping it's at a Wedding, or a Funeral, or (like yesterday) a Church service, situations where one might expect at least what we call "office casual" here.

Is "office casual" a thing in the UK? Businesses used to require men to wear slacks, long-sleeved button-up collared shirts, and ties. This is becoming less and less common. Jackets and ties are gone, and the sort of trousers worn with suits have been replaced by "khakis" as we call them here. Button-up shirts can be short-sleeved. Where it gets borderline is if men wear golf shirts or polo shirts.

And of course our local institution "Hawai'ian Shirt Fridays".

When I was small men and boys wore suits to church. I played at a Lutheran Church yesterday and most men were "business casual" but some were in Hawai'ian shirts, shorts, trainers, etc.

Part of that I suppose is our local creation, the denomination called Calvary Chapel, in which the Pastors preach in blue-jeans and t-shirts. I think it's had a knock-on effect; churches in general are more casual nowadays.

[OC Richard]

Is one overdressed if one wears formal wear to an event where the dress code is "formal?"

I AM careful not to insult someone who knows by sporting heraldry I didn't earn or adding a dirk to my outfit.

The problem is that formal Highland Dress has far more potential for excess than "Saxon" formal wear.

If men are in Tuxedos it's likely their only accessories will be cufflinks and a wristwatch.

But put a man in a Prince Charlie and they push the boat out, the apparent motto being "let nothing be left behind" AKA "if you own it, wear it".

I've piped a morning church services where men are wearing kilts, Prince Charlies, Glengarries with big feathers, plaids & brooches, numerous pins on their lapels and kilts, and multiple edged weapons (sometimes even swords, ready should the sasunnaich burst in).

[Father Bill]

Hmm. When I’m just attending, it’s clericals and jacket. When I’m leading, it’s full robes - the whole thing. It’s expected here.