Theory and practice.

[wildrover]

You don't ask in America. You demand it. Trick-or-treat- you don't ask, you threaten.

...Pirates in kilts?

Rex, I'm still digesting your reply! I will say I do get your point, but I also disagree, and it's not cut & dry by any means. If I can come up with a reasonably coherent explanation, I'll post it back ...anything I posted now would be rambling...it's that time o' night .

-Sean

[O'Callaghan]

Crockett was from Tennessee pard, Dan'l Boone was from Kaintuckee (& never wore a coonskin cap) -- folks are always getting the two mixed up thanks to Fess Parker


okay, back on topic....

I stand humbly corrected. Should I wear a coonskin cap with a kilt when I next visit Tennessee? (Stands by to catch Jock when he faints)

[okiwen]

Jock Scot and Wildrover,

Thanks for the replies. This is where I learn something. Well, also when a someone posts a reply with a pitures that says something to the effect of "See, this is what I mean."

I am about to make my own kilt and I need to get a jacket to go with. I am not a jacket wearer, if I can get away with it, because I don't like the way I look in them. But knowing that one is needed I don't need to spend $400 more than once. Kinda tough to "Know the rules" until you have posted the first 'here I am, what would ya fix'.

I will do this last invitation for correction as long as someone doesn't reply with "put a feather in a funny bonnet pulled over your eyes like my grandfather did is the Boer wars". This is where the costume thing starts and I am so gone.

[Jock Scot]

Jock Scot and Wildrover,

Thanks for the replies. This is where I learn something. Well, also when a someone posts a reply with a pitures that says something to the effect of "See, this is what I mean."

I am about to make my own kilt and I need to get a jacket to go with. I am not a jacket wearer, if I can get away with it, because I don't like the way I look in them. But knowing that one is needed I don't need to spend $400 more than once. Kinda tough to "Know the rules" until you have posted the first 'here I am, what would ya fix'.

I will do this last invitation for correction as long as someone doesn't reply with "put a feather in a funny bonnet pulled over your eyes like my grandfather did is the Boer wars". This is where the costume thing starts and I am so gone.

I see your point about not spending money needlessly or unwisely. Before you start down this route of yours you have to accept that if you are making some sort of tartan traditional(ish) style kilt it is normal(not often seen every day though) highland Scots attire, so it is never seen as a costume.You are not a jacket wearer, but you want to wear the kilt. You are already standing out from the crowd by wanting to wear the kilt, so what is the problem of a kilt jacket? Depending on where you live, its climate and the occasion , shirt sleeves, a pullover(sweater) or a fleece will get you by for most informal events.Anything more formal than that, you really will need the appropriate jacket and as long as you understand that, all will be well.

[KD Burke]

I, and I suspect many others, are grateful to Jock Scot and others for their gracious and salient advice.

While I've only been wearing a kilt for a short time, I do try to respect the traditions associated with it. For my first, I chose an eight-yard hand sewn "tank." My chosen tartan, while not associated with a particular clan, is one that I have a strong personal connection to.

Here in Florida, it is rare that the climate is conducive to proper highland daywear, so I find myself in shirtsleeves and open collar more often than not.

I suspect (or rather, fervently hope!) that my appearance does no discredit to the National Dress of Scotland, but is more a reflection of the realities of latitude.

[ziggy]

Naturally of course... you adjust to your scenario \ and climate ...I perceive the scots to be still a pragamatic people in many ways, so i doubt they'd be displeased to know you're making modifications to be comfortable wearing your highland dress....

[Moski]

Ok, I've been following this thread and my eyes hurt. I own one kilt that I made, cotton twill x-kilt. I'm not even trying to emulate "Highland Dress" which I see as formal wear, along the lines of the Tuxedo and it's variants. Sounds like some traditionalists are suggesting that if I don't wear the whole kit, fully turned out, that I shouldn't try, it's an insult to Scotland. What if I just want to wear "clothing" like the merchant or the carpenter down the lane. What if I'm just taking a piece of comfortable, practical clothing and wearing it. Somehow I gotta believe that to a great extent you might find that the "average Jock" cares as much as the "average Joe" about fashion conventions. As long as you don't look the fool, to the embarrassment of your host most "folk" wont give a quick rip.

"...of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." Dennis Miller.

[Deil the Yin]

Luckily I have been too busy to express my opinion on Jock's "Theory and Practice" thread, and wiser more eloquent members have expressed my concerns in an all together more expeditious fashion. Thanks to Rex, CajunScot and M.A.C. Newsome among several others! Guid on ye, lads!

...There are two problems here:

The first is in ascribing motivation upon those who would wear the kilt in any other fashion that what Jock is familiar with as ridicule and wanton cheapening. He's taking it that way, but I rather doubt anyone intends it that way, even if the non-traditional styling is wantonly deliberate. This is a clash of values, and there are rarely any winners in this kind of conflict.

The second is in conflating petitioners with respondents. In my observation, it's rare that someone who genuinely asks for feedback is the one saying they don't care. Often, I've observed, as soon as someone says, "That's not the way it's done," someone else will say, "Well, I'll wear what I want!" I can't recall a single instance where the OP has taken offense because he requested feedback and got back what he'd rather not hear. Rather it's his presumed defenders who are offended.

Jock stands for something. Tradition. National pride. Decorum. We can (and should) respect and honor this. Why is it so difficult to celebrate progress and innovation at the same time?

Regards,
Rex.

I dare say that the requirements for bridge building and kiltmaking are entirely different. I might have to someday cross a bridge that someone else built, but no one but the kiltmaker himself (or his client) has to wear a kilt that may not measure up to another's standards.

On the matter of compliments, I've heard it said here in these forums that among a certain community, some would say a kind thing, and mean something entirely different, a slam, chalk it up to irony and humor, and congratulate themselves that they themselves were so clever while being smug that the target of their false charity was too dense to discern the difference.

Frankly, I hope to never meet these people, because I'd rather fellowship with people who deal with others honestly.

That being said, we operate in social communities and not ant colonies. That requires that we sometimes have to edit the thoughts we allow to escape our heads. We refrain from giving feedback when it's not solicited, and try to be constructive when it is. We assess when negative feedback is necessary ("Hey, buddy, stop trying to open that emergency hatch, we're still flying at 30,000 feet! What were you thinking?") and when it's not ("Hey, buddy, why did you put colored lights on your Christmas tree? It's so tacky! Have you no idea of the origin of Christmas lights?") I cannot see where a genuine compliment offered in the form of encouragement even when the results are less than optimal is anything but charitable. Harm? Harm indeed! Given all the resources available to the participants of XMTS, where, exactly, is the injury?

Regards,
Rex.

Naturally of course... you adjust to your scenario \ and climate ...I perceive the scots to be still a pragamatic people in many ways, so i doubt they'd be displeased to know you're making modifications to be comfortable wearing your highland dress....

[Leprechaun 91]

I am always interested in this subject. How we romanticize and talk about "traditional" dress when we are often looking at the garment as is was worn AFTER proscription. How the garment was worn once the ENGLISH "allowed" us to wear it once again. The more traditional would be either the great kilt or Philabeg but these are looked at as curiosities and even simply anachronistic. We would generally look at someone wearing bell-bottom jeans as odd but they were worn during a certain period.

As I often point out. The kilt was the daily, work wear of a poor people who had no need for PC jackets or Argyle hose. The Kilt is a common man's garment. We love to romanticize about the lovely royals who donned the garb, but I am a common, modern man. I see no problem with wearing a common, modern kilt. What's "proper?" Whatever you choose. I do aim to be more "traditional" in formal settings. (When in Rome.) As for daily wear... Whatever is fashionable and comfortable is fine for me.

[JSFMACLJR]

Well, they certainly had no need for a PC coatee, because they weren't made until the 1920's.