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28th April 05, 02:33 AM
#21
i guess i started to wear a kilt just to be a little cantankerous. the only kilt i have is a SWK heavy but when i strapped it on all of a sudden i felt a little taller, stood a little straighter and walked a little prouder!
i am enjoy searching through the different tartans and the comfort thing is great!
not sure if there is any scots blood in me but it sure feels like it.
macG
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28th April 05, 03:29 AM
#22
Number 5
While visiting Seattle in '03 I stopped by Utilikilt headquarters and decided to try a UK on. Been hookedx on the comfort ever since.
Number 6
In my younger days I would never have dressed in anything but the current style, not wanting to stand out in any way. Now I'm too old to worry or care what others think. Besides, it is fun to look straight into the eyes of those that I giving you the once over as you walk past them in a kilt.
Jack
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28th April 05, 08:36 AM
#23
I typed up a lengthy post on this thread this morning and all of a sudden when I went to post I got a server error message and it seemed to vanish. So here goes an abbreviated version....
I started wearing the kilt before I even knew I was Scottish. My parents always just said we were English. Later on, with some research, I discovered that while my dad's side was mostly English with a bit of Scottish, my mom's side was mostly Scottish with a bit of English and Irish. But this was after I was already a kilt wearer. I started wearing the kilt in high school, as part of historical reenactments, and so my first kilts were historical, rather than contemporary.
Anyway, a few comments in this thread have led me to wonder -- when and why did the kilt begin to be seen as a "celtic" garment rather than a specifically Scottish garment? I'm not trying to say that non-Scots should not wear the kilt, I'm just wondering about when and how the notion started that the kilt was something generally "celtic."
Some history. As we all know, the kilt developed in the Gaelic Scottish Highlands in the end of the sixteenth century. In fact, the first reference we have to the feileadh-mhor (the first type of kilt) is an Irish document from 1594 saying that you could tell the Hebridean soliders from the Irish soldiers specifically from the way they were dressed. Their kilts marked them as Scottish and not Irish. Over the next two hundred years, the kilt evolved, in Scotland, from the feileadh-mhor to the feileadh-beag and finally, at the end of the eighteenth century, into the tailored kilt. All the while this was seen as a specifically Highland mode of dress. Even in the lowlands, the kilt was seen as "barbaric" and was not worn.
Now, this begins to change somewhat after the Union of the Parliaments in 1707. Now, some Scottish lowlanders who were against the Union would wear the kilt as a sign of Scottish unity -- they would rather be identified with those barbaric Highlanders to the north than with the English. But this wasn't really common until the nineteenth century, when being Scottish was made popular, and the kilt had ceased to be worn as a daily garment and was instead used mostly for ceremonial occasions. Now lowland families began to wear tartans and all of that.
So we have the kilt change from a garment that is specifically worn in the Scottish Highlands to a pan-Scottish garment, identifying Scots, at home and abroad, whether Highland or Lowland in origin.
So why then do we today have the Irish, Welsh, Cornish, and Manx wearing the kilt, and speaking of it as a "celtic" garment? It was never worn by any other celtic group. I think the origin must lie somewhere in the twentieth century. When H. F. McClintock wrote his Old Irish & Highland Dress, published in 1954, he was already dispelling myths about the kilt being part of the Irish national costume. But these myths were being put forth, not by the Irish, but by Scots who wanted to claim an ancient date of origin for the kilt and so believed it to have been worn by their Irish ansestors who crossed over some 1500 years ago. The only kilt wearers in Ireland at the time were members of pipe bands and military regiments, based largely in Northern Ireland and of Scottish descent.
Keep in mind, as well, that until the latter nineteenth century, no one thought of themselves as "celtic." One was a Scot, and Irishman, a Welshman, etc. There was no sense of belonging to some overarchign "celtic culture" at the time.
Today, though, we have kilts being worn by people of Cornish, Breton, Manx, Welsh, and Irish descent, who see the kilt as part of their "celtic heritage" -- despite the fact that none of these groups ever wore the kilt before modern times. But now they all have tartans and other regalia. When people see me in the kilt, I'm asked just as often if I am Irish than if I am Scottish.
So why the change? When did the kilt become a "pan-celtic" garment? Again, I'm not saying here that non-Scots should not wear the kilt. But when did this shift occur?
Aye,
Matt
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28th April 05, 08:49 AM
#24
My first contact with this kilted world was kiltmen.com
Never thought of it before that and I have little Scottish heritage none I knew of until very recently.
My reasons for trying it were comfort and health. Out of curiosity and a "the only way I'll know is if I try" spirit, I read and read and read, and asked questions, and then got myself to some Highland games where I tried and bought a UK. Shortly after I bought a traditional.
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28th April 05, 08:57 AM
#25
Matt if I had to explain, as I am one of those. I would say it stems from the kilt origins in the brat and lein. of course we all know about the lein being left behind and the brat turning into the kilt, but in my mind the kilt origins stem back to that being Irish in nature I consider the developed kilt a celt origin item. plus in my mind I find it hard to believe at some point in Irish history someone didn't get the idea to cut the top off of a lein and wear just the bottom half belted, not a kilt in the terms we think of it, but...
Plus as I understand it what we know about kilts is changing as we find and learn more. Just cause we haven't found it doesn't mean it isn't there. So be it self-delusion or yet to be discovered history, let me have it.
That is the connection I make and why I feel a cultural tie to wearing my kilt, even non-tartan kilts. I know everytime the discussion of Irish kilts comes up it gets heated, The O'Dinan is a topic on both sides. You can beleive it or not, without his research I am willing to take a little on faith, with the belief as people we VERY rarely make completely new innovations but usually just change, adapt, or modify what exists.
http://www.somebody.to/od.htm
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28th April 05, 09:36 AM
#26
Matt I didnt know you were a Scot whereabouts are you from??
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28th April 05, 09:43 AM
#27
Bishop,
I just took a read at that article, and all I can say is that in all my research of traditional Irish clothing, I have never, never seen any reference to anything like the Irish wearing kilts as he describes, especially each family having their own solid color that identifies them -- over 200 if you believe his count!
But even if the kilt were Irish in origin, when and why did they begin to be seen as "pan-celtic"?
Aye,
Matt
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28th April 05, 09:52 AM
#28
Thank you, Matt
Matt:
Thank you for the excellent post! You have summed up my thoughts exactly. Well said!!!
Scotus
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28th April 05, 11:20 AM
#29
I used the word "celtic" in refering to ethnic identity for two reasons.
The first is that in technical terms Scottish or Scot is not an ethinic group rather a political identity based around the notion of Scotland as country or a geographic area. For example I would not use American as an ethnic identifier rather I would use it as a statement of nationality. Having ancestors that originated in Scotland lets a person identify with a national heritage. One can have any ethinic background whatso ever and still be Scottish. An exampole of this would be someone from an Asian, African, or Polynesian population group that was a citizen of Scotland. I know that "Scottish" is commonly used as an ethnic identifier, but that is not really the correct usage.
The second reason that I celtic ethnicity as a reason for wearing the kilt get gets right to the crux of M.A.C.'s arguement. Why is the kilt seen as a celtic garment rather than a Scottish one? I have come across many sites on the web promoting the kilt as an Irish or a Welsh garment. These sites insinuate that kilt wearing has a long history among all celtic peoples. My post was not meant to debate whether or not the kilt belongs to any one group but rather why a person wears a kilt. If a person wears a kilt because he belives that it connects him to his ancient Welsh roots than that answer is just as valid as a person wear a kilt to gain a connection with his Scot ancestors. Whether or not the Welsh ever actually wore kilts is another question. It is the impression that the Kilt is generaly celtic that intrests me.
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28th April 05, 11:54 AM
#30
Exactly, Tim. I'm not saying the Irish, Welsh, Manx, etc., should not wear the kilt. Heck, I think anyone who wants to can wear the kilt, including Africans, Polynesians, and Eskimos!
I was just curious as to why there has been this perception shift that the kilt is a general celtic garment, rather than a specific Scottish garment.
Is it because people (usually those who stand to make a few dollars off of outfit and cloth sales) are promoting the (false) notion that ancient Welsh, Irish, etc., people wore the kilt? Or are people promoting use of the kilt by these other national groups because that perception already existed and they are just taking advantage of it? Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Matt
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