So it's not a skirt (or maybe it is). And the point is...?

[bubba]

Next time some sarcastic type says nice skirt ask if he puts fender pants on his car.

[Chris Webb]

Hum. I may be asking for trouble by admitting this here but I wear a kilt because it IS a skirt. I don't 'trick out' my kilts, I just wear a kilt. Right now I have on a very light weight polyester kilt in a red/black/white plaid (not tartan), a black muscle shirt tucked in and black sandals. I also had a black fanny pack slung over my shoulder and across my chest. Certainly I'm dressed at the very edge of the skirt/kilt debate.

I was at Walmart earlier this evening and I think we can all agree that the customers and staff at damned near any Walmart is a good representation of society's most down to earth people. Here is what I experienced:

1. A few odd looks and many smiles.

2. Two older gentlement gave me a 'thumbs up' and one other middle aged guy gave me a 'thumbs up' and a "You look good!"

3. Two teenage girls followed my through the parking lot, one row over and finally drove up when I got to my car ... they were thoroughly impressed, had never seen a man in a, as they said, a, well, what do you call it? They asked if they could take my picture so I stood in my best 'Braveheart' pose and they loved it.

Nobody gave me any trouble of any kind.

Was I wearing a kilt or a skirt? The simple truth is that the only reason my skirt could really be called a kilt is because I, a man, was wearing it. ANY woman could put on this same exact outfit and it would certainly be called a skirt. If a skirt is on a man then it is a kilt. If a kilt is on a woman then it is a skirt or, at best, a kilted skirt.

Do people sometimes say, "Nice Skirt", they sure do. They also often ask if anybody ever gives me any trouble for wearing 'it.' I always reply the same way ....

"Would YOU?"

Kilt On.

Chris Webb

[KiltedCodeWarrior]

Hum. I may be asking for trouble by admitting this here but I wear a kilt because it IS a skirt. ...

Was I wearing a kilt or a skirt? The simple truth is that the only reason my skirt could really be called a kilt is because I, a man, was wearing it. ANY woman could put on this same exact outfit and it would certainly be called a skirt. If a skirt is on a man then it is a kilt. If a kilt is on a woman then it is a skirt or, at best, a kilted skirt...

Hey Chris, how about some pics to go with your post? If you wear a kilt because it is a skirt, then your motivation might be different than some on the board, but that is not the reason I ask. You seem to imply that your kilt would be called a skirt if worn by a woman, so I am curious to see if it has the traditional kilt characteristics, like an over and under apron in the front, wrapped left over right, with pleats in the back running counter clockwise when viewing the kilt from the top, or is pleated all the way around like a woman's skirt.

[Scott Gilmore]

Good thread. Very good thread.

I've only been posting here a short while, but this kind of atmosphere is what I've always liked about the Web, and found discouragingly hard to find most the time. Years ago this kind of sense of community wasn't so rare. Anyone here remember pre-Internet bulletin boards?

Anyway, I digress. Chris Webb's post is most revealing. Some are far more secure about our sexual identity than others. A tip of the caubeen to Chris.

Thank you,
Scott Gilmore

[James]

I have seen men's skirts in many parts of the world, Greece. The Maldives, the Pacific, and oddly enough Scotland-or do I mean the kilt.

Also having worn the Kilt since childhood, I think it is necessary to look at what we are doing and why?

In my case there are regular occasions where I can justify my kilt on the grounds of a particular Scottish connection to that occasion-when certainly I can say that the connection justifies my claim to be wearing the kilt.

However there are just as many, maybe more occasions when I wear my kilt for reasons of comfort, mood of the day and so on; and cannot justify it as being a kilt by reason of some Scottish connection: could it be that on such an occasion I'm in fact wearing a skirt?

Let me be quite clear, I have not the slightest interest in appearing as a woman or dressing as one. However as stated in my opening sentence I've seen male skirts in many parts of the world, true they have their own specific names: but they are still skirts. Just as women have different names for types of their skirt.

Too every man on this board wears skirts on occasion, that's right the skirts of a jacket/coat: too there are skirting boards in the home, and many of us live in the outskirts of a town. So skirt, is not an exclusive female word.

So I for one do not get too bothered about what my kilt might be called-though I would get annoyed at any suggestion of effeminacy upon my part.

At this point we must remember the fight of women to wear what they chose-be it skirt or trousers, a fight they won despite opposition, and of course comments. So today they have the right to wear what they choose, thanks to their collective courage in facing down that opposition.

At this point I would suggest that whatever we might claim, we are dressing in a certain way for comfort etc, and merely hiding behind an oft scant Scottish connection/reason. To put it bluntly we are choosing to wear a skirt, but as men: not as imitation women, or for sexual gratification.

I would therefore suggest to this board, that we should emulate the courage of our convictions, and face down any opposition to our wearing a skirt. In other words win the right to dress in the way we choose. For can we really claim that some of the variants mentioned on this board, be the The Utilikilt, denim or camouflage versions, really have a Scottish connection-I doubt it.

So rather than running scared, we should have enough confidence and courage to wear what we like, when we like.

James

[Pour1Malt]

...
I was at Walmart earlier this evening...

Kilt On.

Chris Webb

guid comments Chris...

jus remember- Walmart is EVIL

dinnae give them oiny o yur money!

[Mattg]

If this was true, there wouldn't be a need to "trick-up" the kilt with sporrans, daggers, and other traditional kit to "declare" that it's masculine. There remains much insecurity even amongst commited kilt weareres.

I disagree. I don't "trick-up" my kilt to make me feel more masculine. I add those accessories because that's the way kilts have been worn for a long time. They all served a purpose at one time.

[Blu (Ontario)]

... I add those accessories because that's the way kilts have been worn for a long time. They all served a purpose at one time.

And with a few exceptions, they are almost as functional as a necktie.

.

[Archangel]

This type of skirt I wear, that type of skirt I don't. Why? This one I consider a male garment (more correctly, both gender), the others I consider as women's garments. Any slight there, I hope not, certainly none intended.
Am I concerned that I may appear to be cross-dressing? Only to the point that I'm not, so I don't want that misunderstanding. After that, if that's the impression then, tough.

As for women's mythical roles, I always have my mother as a role model. As I've related before her brothers were commandos and she lived near the training grounds in Scotland when she was in her early teens. They taught her deadly stuff that she taught me, that I've used in adult Black Belt tournaments and scored. She was pretty close to being a single mom of four kids, but was still a model and an actress. She made mistakes as a parent, oh well, but I never doubted her love and fierceness. When I was about 20, she wanted to pay for me to fly out and "take care of" a guy who upset my sister.
Mom's retired now, and works part time as a server/deputy/tracer. Pretty scary.
I never acknowledge crap about woman's place or man's work. It's the difference between rights and privilege.
Whoops, getting on a rant, stop now.

[Hachiman]

Hi gang

Firstly, may I just thank Rex for the "future psychologist" label - I loved it, and it sounds good!

Secondly, I noticed a common element in some of the posts in this thread which asked why some people feel compelled to distinquish between a "kilt as a man's garment" and "skirts as a woman's garment". Now, bearing in mind that I have no empirical evidence with which to back this up, my initial thought comes from the writings of such authors as Connell, Pleck, and Levine, who conduct research on gender. In their writings, some authorities on masculinity claim that in today's Western Society, men are effectively compelled by social forces to demonstrate and validate their masculinity in almost everything they do. Thus, in order to differentiate a "friendly hug" between two men from a "intimate cuddle", you'll see an application and affectations of strength (i.e. back slapping, bear hugs, etc). Thus, one could argue that, due to the subtle influence of societal forces, we men are still "compelled" to prove that we are still men, and that this garment is a man's garment. Of course, this is a generalisation, and probably does not apply to every man - there are exceptions to almost every rule, after all.

Maybe it's another thesis for a later day! ;)

Thirdly, may I also compliment xmarkers on their sensible, open-minded and insightful comments on this board. I've been constantly impressed by the comments I read, and I'm proud to be a member of this community as a result.

OK - before I start sounding like some idiotic academic, I'll wrap up here!

Good thread, Rex!

cheers
Hachiman