Frugal Corner Pipes (review)

[haukehaien]

If you want pipes to hang on the wall, Asian pipes are great.

If you want to play, then something else is better.

Also, there seems to be this idea that someone who's thinking about learning the pipes needs a set of pipes to mess around with. I can think of no better way to ensure that you will never be a piper than to attempt to learn on a set of pipes rather than the PC. It is not possible for a novice to pick up a set of pipes and start playing. Breathing and arm pressure, the proper strike in, dealing with the drones - you can't do these things and learn the fingerings at the same time. There's a reason pipers start on the PC - by the time you get to the full set of pipes, the chanter play needs to be in muscle memory, so that you hardly even think about it. Davidlpope is exactly right when he suggests starting with a PC and the tutor (and hopefully an instructor). It will cost less than even a set of Asian pipes, and it will be more productive. The steps wgority listed are typical for what's required to make a cheap set of pipes even remotely playable, and are also often beyond the beginning player. I started out with a set of Asian pipes; one of the things that amazed me when I got my Dunbars was how easy they were to play. That's the sort of thing that makes a good "learner's pipes", not the price.

Finally, as to including this topic in the "Accessories" forum, I would disagree with you most wholeheartedly in this. the bagpipe is not an accessory. It is a musical instrument! You don't need one to wear a kilt and you don't need to wear a kilt to play one. I played pipes for years before wearing a kilt. If bagpipes are reduced to a mere accoutrement for kilt-wearers, then we are, as a culture, far poorer for it.

If you allow popular thought or the preconceptions of the ignorant dictate anything to you regarding bagpipes, then I might respectfully suggest that you put down the bagpipes and walk away from them entirely. You're playing them for the wrong reason. The only reason to take up any instrument is to play them because you love the music that comes from them. There is no other reason. - wgority

Absolutely. And I would add, that if you love the music that comes from an instrument and wish to be part of making that music, it is a good idea to follow the steps that have been proven to make musicians. Pipers don't tell everyone who wants to be a piper that they have to start on the PC because it's some sort of bizarre fraternity initiation; we do it because we've seen, either in our own piping journey or in others', what the result is for people who thought they could just pick up the pipes and start playing. It's not pretty.

[gangreenfootball]

Sounds like a bang for the buck thanks for giving us the review

[Kiltedfirepiper]

I will say that having the pakistani pipes taught me alot about maintenance!!!

I learned to tie in a bag, how to season a bag, how to get cheap cane reeds playable. and the cost of not researching other possible instruments!

and I did it all without an instructor.....i'm not saying its the way to go, but its the route I went.
I picked up all 3 College Of Piping books and was OCD about learning everything as close as possible w/o/ an instructor.....7 years later I have been told by a few PM's and a few PS's that i would rate about a grade 3...
and if I would only learn to read music( for some reason i can READ the music, then PLAY the music, but I cant read and play at the same time.... a little dyslexic in that respect ) i would probably be a borderline 3/2

my loss.....but I plan on getting the rest right soon.

if I could do it over again I would get an instructor from day one......
BUT!!! I did have JUST a practice chanter for the first 4 months

kfp

[wgority]

Sounds like very good value.

I must respectfully disagree cessna152towser. He has gotten precisely one note from them at the time of writing the overview of those pipes. It was a drone sound, and based on his own professed lack of knowledge of pipes I would be hesitant to accept his description of the sound as being "full and beautiful" (paraphrasing). Erisianmonkey, I hate to say it, but do you have enough experience with and knowledge of bagpipes that you can legitimately make that call?

Good value for money to me means that the instrument should be ready to go and not require fettling beyond the usual set-up, minor adjustments of reed and tuning of drones. It should most assuredly not require major surgery on the chanter (as has been needed in my prior experience with inexpensive [in that specific case Pakistani] bagpipes) to render it able to be played with other pipers.

I would contend that good value for money is also based upon having something you will want to pass onto your children and grandchildren. It is an instrument that will stand the test of time like the Hendersons, Hardies and Lawries that were made in the 19th Century and are still being played today. Those instruments are still valued for their superior tone and beauty and are copied regularly by modern makers. That, my friends, is value for money.

As to Erisianmonkey's statement that "If these pipes are 'crap' then good pipes have got to be incredible", I would again raise a point of contention. What basis for judgement is being given? Essentially none. When a more experienced piper has tried the instrument and given them a thumbs up, then I would agree to the basic point. One puff on the drones does not make an instrument incredible. It doesn't even make it good-or anything else really. It simply means you got a sound.

And ya know what? I'll admit to being a "pipe snob". What's the problem with that?

By the way, get a teacher Erisianmonkey. Don't go the self-instruction route. Some self-taught pipers are very good, but they are a very rare exception indeed, and not the rule. Learning from the College of Piping books is good, but, lacking the critical ear of a real live instructor, you may not get all the subtleties of many of the more advanced gracings. Additionally, the COP books don't adequately address the timing of gracings within the time signature.

YMMV

I will apologise up front to anyone offended by this. If you disagree with me, I can accept that, but I'll not back away from anything I've said in this thread. As I said, I happily claim the title of "pipe snob". I take the instrument seriously and as a result have been rewarded many times over. The immeasurable pleasure given me my my pipes is something I'd love everyone to share. Good luck to you Erisianmonkey in your piping journey. If you'd like advice as you move along, I'll be glad to help out.

[mddock58]

As I had posted before...

Well maybe this is a challenge for Mark to have his "beginner pipes" evaluated and critiqued by one or two of the pipers we have on board here!

I understand the arguments posted by the "pipers" on this board, and I respect all of you for your ability. ( I play(ed) 3 instruments and sing, and though I have a practice chanter, I have not got the hang of it - though there is a "physical" problem I have to work around.)

There is almost no way pipes that sell for under $200.00 are going to match a "nice" set of beginner pipes, just as a cheap flute bought off the internet may not give the good tone needed that a good beginner flute would.

Cost and quality are ALWAYS factors, the better quality, the more work involved, therefore the higher cost.

Snob or not, a good piper SHOULD evaluate the inexpensive pipes, because a non-piper or a beginning piper does not have either the experience or the ear to know what should be the result of playing the instrument.

I also believe that you should not snub a vendor, just because of the cost of the product. There are always areas where quality can be made cheaper than others, and with proper instruction, and quality control, anything may be made at significant savings.

Mark at Frugal Corner is not trying to put one over on the customer - that would result in a very poor customer feedback, and in this day and age, a swift demise.

I agree with much of what the pipers here have said, but I applaud Mark for being willing to have them evaluated at all.

[beloitpiper]

I happily claim the title of "pipe snob". I take the instrument seriously and as a result have been rewarded many times over. The immeasurable pleasure given me my my pipes is something I'd love everyone to share. Good luck to you Erisianmonkey in your piping journey. If you'd like advice as you move along, I'll be glad to help out.

AGREED. When looking for a set of Uilleann pipes, I saw a set manufactured by "Middle-East" (that is literally the name of the company) all over the internet. BUT, after asking Uilleann pipers all over the world (yay internet!) they all told me the same thing: Middle-East pipes may sound ok, but they don't hold up. And that's when I found David Daye, a Uilleann pipe maker who has helped me immeasurably and provided me with a set of pipes that I KNOW will last.

Craftsmanship is not always there. Sometimes, a product may look nice, but not live up to expectations (whether those expectations came from the manufacturer or not).

All I am saying is that looks can be deceiving.

[Kilted-Marine]

Since January we have sold and shipped close to 450 kilts, i could not tell you how many Sporrans, flashes and others things. We have sold and shipped MAYBE 30 bagpipes. It surprises me that there is more talk about the pipes then the Kilts. Some people would like to have an inexpensive set, and we would like to be the ones that provide them. When folks stop buying them we will stop selling them.

ANYWAY-here is the competition... Write an "EBAY BAGPIPE AD" for us and the best AD will win:
Their choice of a Stock Tartan Kilt, Custom made to size in Heavy weight 16 oz weight with matching flashes
Tartans include - Royal Stewart, Hunting Stewart, Black Watch, Pride of Scotland, Scottish National, Gordon, Dress Gordon, Dress MacPherson, Buchanan Modern, Clark / Clergy, Cameron, Solid Black, MacKenzie, and several others
You can send your AD to
Sales@thefrugalcorner.com subject Line: XMARK CONTEST

see website for more information http://www.thefrugalcorner.com/xmarks.htm

[Riverkilt]

Boy, I'm confused and disuaded. I love the sound of the pipes. Must be in my blood eh?

Some years ago my then girlfriend bought me a practice chanter for Christmas through one of those Scottish things jobber's catalog. Guessing for the price it was made in Pakistan.

I was thrilled, until I found I couldn't make it work...lung power, bad reed, something else...So I resolved to find a "quality" practice chanter and went to Thompson's in Flagstaff - fully intent on laying out a few hundred dollars. The owner asked to see my chanter. He took it and played it like a dream and said there's nothing wrong with it....so...must be me....I'm thinking about one of those electric ones since I live in a fourplex...no intent on playing the fancy ones. Just wanna make the music.

But I wouldn't know a good reed from a bad reed from any other bad or good parts.

Ron

[Kilted-Marine]

Ron

My Dad lives up on teh Mira river in Cape Breton. A fisherman up there just caught a 14.8 pound Brown Trout.

And in other news, I am getting my dad a Keith Kilt and i am still trying to get in an order of Cape Breton Tartan

[Riverkilt]

My great great grandfather, who came over with his father in the clearances married a Mary Gillis on CBI. Have been looking for the Gillis tartan (no don't want the Gillies though they're "the same") There's a university up there who has it but can't find it....

Drifting off the thread, sorry....but point for me is if I did try some pipes I'd be hard pressed to pick a tartan for the bag...so many meaningful ones. But if I can't play the pc what's the point?

Ron