Cornish and Welsh wore kilts.

[Pleater]

I have been scouring my book of costume, and did think that I had found something at least kilt like.

There are Egyptian kilts of 4500BC, which do seem to have pleats, and flaps, but that was rather a long time back.

There is no further mention of kilts for several thousand years.

There is the waffenrock, German, 1525, which is a quilted gold brocade item, with shaped pleats basted in in two lines of thread, and two straight bits at the sides, forming just over a semicircle when laid out. Very kiltlike, but alas, the pleats were worn at the front.

There is a quote which mentions the cloth worn by the Scots, which is from Chamberlayne 'The present state of England' 38th edition 1755, saying basically that the English wool was so good in the time of Phillip the Good Duke of Burgundy that all the Scots wore it, from the highest to the lowest, and it brought in so much gold that the Duke established the miitary Order of the Golden Fleece in 1429 when he married Isabel of Portugal. The Staple of English wool was kept in Burgundy - doesn't say why. Perhaps it was not all processed 'at home' but sent out for spinning and weaving in the local fashion whereever it was wanted.

The Duke of Burgundy is depicted in a natty doublet which looks rather like pleats attached to a yoke and set of sleeves - with the shoulders padded and the sleeve tops gathered like something out of Dynasty. It is proper kilt length. The style of the times is for cartridge pleats.

I will need time to study the whole two volumes, but I suspect that kilts and Britain other than England are not going to get much mention.

[Bryan]

I'm telling you man, it's always been about selling an idea to the people. Lol : p

Quite true!!! LOL

[Troy]

This company is quoted as saying...
The wearing of a chequered or tartan cloth by our Celtic ancestors is a tradition that can be traced back through the centuries. In the ancient Tumuli (burial grounds) found throughout Cornwall, fragments of tartan cloth have frequently been unearthed. The Romans described the dress of the Western tribes of Britain as being a “loose tunic of chequered material ... drawn in at the waist by a leather belt”.

A “loose tunic of chequered material ... drawn in at the waist by a leather belt” is somewhat different to a kilt, so I think it's a drawing a long bow to suggest that the Cornish wore kilts (prior to about 1903, that is!). That's not to say, of course, that the fabric from which their garments were made wasn't what we would describe as 'tartan'.

There have been other, more spurious, arguments put forward to support the notion that the Cornish wore kilts in days of old, such as interpreting the garments worn by some figures carved into some 16th century pew-ends in Altarnun church (as previously discussed, they could quite easily be mason's or blacksmith's aprons). To my mind these sorts of arguments do nothing but detract from Cornwall's rich history.

Many Cornish, and those of Cornish descent (such as myself) proudly wear kilts, but we don't claim that this is a tradition dating back centuries. In a couple of hundred years, though, I hope my descendants will be telling a slightly different story!

Cheers,

Troy

[Graywolf]

Alright, so as I understand it, the kilt as we think of it today is of Scottish origin, developed after the price of wool became affordable. However it descended from the Irish liene and a pleated Viking garment, from which the word "kilt", meaning pleated originated. So we have Scottish, Irish, and Scandinavian. Finally, if I am not mistaken the oldest plaid garment was found in a tomb of red-haired, Caucasian people in western China. This tells me everyone has the right to wear a kilt.

[Chef]

However it descended from the Irish liene

No it's not. he fact that the liene was worn in both Scotland and Ireland does not mean the kilt is descended from it.

and a pleated Viking garment

There are many pleated garments around the world that have nothing to do with the Scottish kilt. The link to any Viking Garment is dubious based on the length of time between the Viking influence and the emergence of the kilt.

from which the word "kilt", meaning pleated originated.

Kilt is an English word of Scandinavian origin (as are many others) meaning "tucked in", but that itself shows no Scandinavian origin of the kilt in Scotland.

Finally, if I am not mistaken the oldest plaid garment was found in a tomb of red-haired, Caucasian people in western China.

Patterned woven materials show up all over the world, it's a function of weaving, but again o direct link to the Scottish kilt.

This tells me everyone has the right to wear a kilt.

I never said otherwise. Choose to wear the kilt because you like it or for any new meaning you want it to symbolise, just don't make up an historical justification for it.

[Chef]

[rant]

The one idea that seems to get lost in these made up, ancient pan-celtic ideas of the kilt is the reason there is a modern kilt. That is very simply Scottish nationalism. The Highland kilt was adopted by lowlanders as a sign of Scottish nationalism. Sir Walter Scott romanticised an independent Scotland and the highland culture (and with it the kilt) as a form of Scottish nationalism, the Highland regiments got the kilt so they would feel Scottish. There would have been no kilt for the Victorians to take an interest in if it were not for Scottish nationalism. The likelihood is it would have gone the way of other forms of dress (yes, like the Irish liene) if it had not been held on to as a symbol.

So arguments about ancient pan celtic cultures sharing the kilt is meaningless, even if it were true, which it isn't. There was no pan-celtic culture the way we like to romanticise in today. They were clans and families mostly working on survival. Clothes were functional rather than cultural. Even today, ask an Irishman what his background is and he will tell you Irish. He's no more likely to say celtic than a Frenchman will tell you European.

In many ways trying to rewrite the history of the kilt would be the equivalent of rewriting the history of the shamrock in Ireland. It stands for something very important in history. This does not mean that someone cannot use the symbol (shamrock or kilt) to symbolise something new (anti-English for example) based on what it already symbolises, but you cannot hijack a history to suit your needs.

When it comes to the kilt, if you want to wear it to symbolise your culture or nationalism, Scottish or otherwise, just don't forget where it came from, why it's here and what it stands for. On the other hand wear it as a comfortable garment...period!


[/end rant]