Hot Stuff!

[Nick Fiddes]

What's your take on the tobacco industry?

As for the flaming demonstration, my wife's pantyhose would react to flames the same way. Are you advocating that all acrylic fabrics be banned?

Okay, since you ask, no I don't like the tobacco industry, nor most other drug dealers either. But despite that I believe most prohibition does more harm than good, and have no wish to ban acrylics. My posting was about public awareness, not authoritarian bans.

And I'm sorry to have to say that don't know your wife's habits well enough to comment directly (honest!) but I think in practical terms a swinging kilt is probably enormously more likely to contact a naked flame (see scenario above) than most positions she is likely to get into. But please do tell us otherwise...

[Chef]

Unfortunately the city council in Edinburgh has done nothing to stop the tartan tat that seems to be consuming the Royal Mile, and until the proliferation of these types of shops is at least curbed than I see that there is little to be done about the situation.

Growing up close to the Royal Mile I find myself disgusted by the cheap crap that is passed off to tourists these days. There was a time (not that long ago mind you) that just saying you had you kilt made on the Royal Mile was impressive. Now with few exceptions it means cheap crap. I do believe it is only a matter of time before the city council acts however. They are coming under increasing pressure not only from the Edinburgh populace but from Parliament as well.

People are quick to pigeon-hole lawyers as lairs and cheats, but in my opinion, the advertising industry is a million times world.

Truer words were never spoken.

I don't have a problem with anyone selling the cheap kilts. For some folks, that's the only way they'll ever have a kilt of any kind.

I understand the point but respectfully disagree. There IS a place for affordable kilts made of non-wool fabric for those of us who do not have the means or inclination to wear all wool all the time. Yes, those upper end kilts are carefully hand crafted and indeed a work of art. But to say that those are the only "true kilts" is not fair. Many people have been introduced to kilts by trying affordable acrylic kilts and work their way up to an all wool "tank."

I, for one, have acrylic kilts, wool kilts, polyviscose kilts, and cotton canvas kilts. I, for one, have hand- and machine-sewn kilts. I, for one, have paid as little as $30 for a kilt, and as much as $500. I, for one, think there's room in the kilt industry for all kinds of kilts, and in the community for all kinds of kilties.

Personally I think we should use a word other than cheap when we are discussing good inexpensive kilts. There is definitely a place for "value" kilts; examples being Stillwater's Standard or Heavyweight or Rocky's casual kilts (and others) but these are far and away better garments than the cheap cr*p being passed off by Gold Brothers and others like them on the Royal Mile. I realise they sell more than these, but they sell plenty of what is being referred to here.

Whether it's machine stitched in Pakistan or made from leftover tablecloth material it is not possible to make a proper kilt for the price of a cheap pair of pants and it doesn't matter whether it is a traditionally styled tartan kilt or a new style Amerikilt or Utilikilt. Ask any of our kit makers there is simply too much work involved even if it isn't a custom made kilt.

The tourist trap cheap kilts on the Royal Mile barely pass as a kilt from across the street, never mind if you are within 20 feet. With a possible very few exceptions I do not believe that there will be any sizeable increase in kilt wear because of the sales of these. Most of the ones sold will never see the light of day except as jokes. I've spoken to a few store clerks who sell them and trust me these kilts are not being bought for serious reasons.

There is a market for value kilts and I hope it grows, but this cr*p should be relegated to the skip!

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the cheap price is forgotten."

A true sage

As for the flaming demonstration, my wife's pantyhose would react to flames the same way. Are you advocating that all acrylic fabrics be banned?

Not all acrylics are as flammable as this, and acrylics can be treated to resist flame, of course that makes them slightly more expensive. A kilt or any skirt is more likely to come in contact with an open flame (i.e. fire place) or another ignition source (i.e. portable heater) than a close fitting garment like pants or pantyhose, so very flammable materials should probably not be made into kilts or other skirts.

And of course I know not everyone can easily afford a full traditional kilt hand-made for them. This is a luxury product. But, in my own eyes (and I suspect most lovers of Scottish tradition would say the same) I'd have far more respect when I see someone in a slightly moth-eaten second-hand example in any old tartan than in a plastic substitute for the real thing. Same price. :-)

Only one word needed....AMEN

[Jock Scot]

Well said Nick.

[Ozman1944]

I have no children, all my kilts (23) (like everything else in my closet ) are not wool, but man-made fibres. I am fully aware of their flammability/melting point, so I do not hover over open flames. However, I do totally agree with correct labeling, I had an aunt burn to death in a mislabeled nightgown when she was 16.

[Tattoo Bradley]

I agree with a lot of what everyone has said. Having tried acrylic kilts early on, I can without a doubt say I am absolutely not a fan of them for kilt fabric. HOWEVER, I think it's a bit inconsiderate to openly "trash" and exagerate the "dangers" of acrylic fabric when we have more than one XMTS advertiser who sells acrylic kilts.

[James MacMillan]

Maybe I'm not getting it, but we seem to have two concerns here.

One is honesty. People who are selling synthetic for wool.

The second is perceived safety. I say perceived, because the intelligent user of anything can use it safely!

I have both wool and man-made kilts. Both have their uses. Man-made fabrics have enabled me to have many more kilts in my closet than I would have other wise. Heck – If I had to stick to wool, I probably would only have four kilts in all.

???

[David Dalglish]

I only wear wool kilts, it is my choise to do that & I can aford to buy one or two a year. I would not wear a cheap acrylic kilt, but there is a place for them ie Football--rugby matches etc. where a wool kilt may get damaged. However, as long as people buy these cheap kilts there will be a market for them & the gold Bros being buisness men will cash in on this market. I would like to see then labelled properly so there is no confusion as to where they as made, but I think that if anyone mistakes these kilts for the genuine article, they deserve all they get.

[rmmcscott]

I only wear wool kilts, it is my choise to do that & I can aford to buy one or two a year. I would not wear a cheap acrylic kilt, but there is a place for them ie Football--rugby matches etc. where a wool kilt may get damaged. However, as long as people buy these cheap kilts there will be a market for them & the gold Bros being buisness men will cash in on this market. I would like to see then labelled properly so there is no confusion as to where they as made, but I think that if anyone mistakes these kilts for the genuine article, they deserve all they get.

I've been reading along, and agreeing with some and disagreeing with others... everyone has their right to their own opinion. And, as someone with a business degree, I understand the concept of free enterprise, which is one of the things that makes this country great.

This posting caught my attention, and not in a good way. While other posts were providing some positive spin on things (ie lobbying to change labelling requirements, etc.), they weren't just griping. THIS POSTING, while still his opinion that he is entitled to, just seemed hateful and bitter.

"but I think that if anyone mistakes these kilts for the genuine article, they deserve all they get." That's not even close to the spirit which I think this website is here to encourage! Not everyone on this site can afford a new wool kilt or two every year, and not everyone is as educated in the kilt world as others - newbies can't be expected to know everything right away! If a newbie (on a budget) tried to buy a proper kilt from Scotland, and was mislead, why would anyone say "well, that's what they get"? Why not say, "hey... let me help educate you so you don't get taken again" or "These might be some recourses you have to get this corrected so you can have the kilt you THOUGHT you were buying"...

Just my two cents... I really hate devicivness and snobbery. My theory is if you're gonna complain, offer a positive suggestion to change what you don't like.

Peace!

[Nick Fiddes]

I'd just like to apologise sincerely to anyone who feels I've been downing either them or competitors. If you re-read what I've actually said, I've tried all along to make it clear that what I've been writing was mostly either as a personal opinion, or as wearing my 'hat' as a governor of the Scottish Tartans Authority, whose responsibility it is to defend Scottish traditions. Where I've been aware of having a commercial vested interest, I've tried to make it clear that I'm aware of that.

Perhaps people could give me guidance? When I post here, I'm always aware that what I say represents at least three different 'voices': my own personal thoughts; my company; and the STA. I'm of course aware of the risk of this, and it's clear from the above that I've lost Scotweb/Kiltstore at least one customer for my sin of speaking frankly. My aim wasn't to abuse individuals or other companies that think differently, but to explain how I feel on the issue and why. But of course that's a bit naive...

So what do people think? This strikes me as a wonderful debating board, and I'd love to be able to contribute both knowledge and opinions as fully and truthfully as I believe others may find interesting or helpful. But is this simply stupid, given that when I'm speaking as a personal individual rather than representing Scotweb's official stance it will inevitably reflect back on the company, and lose us business?

I'm seriously wondering whether I should register a second login, and call myself by a nickname that regulars will recognise but not identify me with the company, for general chat. Perhaps I need three logins. I'd appreciate advice. :-)

[Colin]

Perhaps people could give me guidance? When I post here, I'm always aware that what I say represents at least three different 'voices': my own personal thoughts; my company; and the STA. I'm of course aware of the risk of this, and it's clear from the above that I've lost Scotweb/Kiltstore at least one customer for my sin of speaking frankly. My aim wasn't to abuse individuals or other companies that think differently, but to explain how I feel on the issue and why. But of course that's a bit naive...

<moderator hat off>

Hi Nick,

I understand your dilemna. Personally I have always taken any posts or threads by kilt business owners as personal opinion (as you stated in your posts may times in this thread). The only time I see any business owners posts as business related is when the topic deals directly with their company. You have made it pretty clear that the majority of your posts in this thread have been your own personal opinion, and I strongly believe you are entitled to that. If someone thinks you have done a disservice to your "cause and business" by your personal opinion....well, I don't see that. The sponsors, like the moderators, on this site are members of the forum first. We sometimes feel just as strongly about issues as other members, why would we not participate in those discussions? and can we not take part in those discussions as kilt wearers and forum members without it being seen as a conflict of interest?

I for one am thankful for your first and subsequent posts. This has been an intersting thread, and one which I have passed on to others that I thought may find it interesting. I only hope that members here can follow the advise of Matt (and a few others) and except that we all agree that there is a place for the inexpensive kilts in the market. No one is bashing your kilt of choice.

<moderator hat back on>

Now I would hate to see this thread locked down, so let's ALL be respectful of each other, our opinions, and the kilts that we choose to wear. One person is no better than the other because they have 50 kilts, and I am no better than anyone else because I choose to save for a traditional wool kilt rather than buy 5-10 of the inexpensive ones. Most of us have gotten past this pettiness and own kilts from the whole spectrum. Let's have a nice discussion and debate without anyone getting their pleats in a bunch, okay?