can someone tell me about these bagpipes

[JS Sanders]

Quite true - delrin Dunbar's aren't always the least expensive option. Not considering African blackwood pipes could be a mistake.

I've had a set of Dunbar P1's for several years. They were purchased for inclement weather, travel, and as emergency back-up on long distance gigs.

These pipes have been played in pouring rain, at frigid graveside services, and blazing hot 4 July parades. My P1's have been seen service in Glencoe, on lonely moors, in Scottish pubs, and in Northern Ireland. They have been across the Atlantic several times in the aircraft's hold. I can't even find a scratch on them after all this. Essentially a bombproof GHB. They resist beer very well too.

There are downsides to these as well. Perhaps they can give potential buyers more to consider.

- I don't care for the supplied chanter. It's tone is rather lackluster and doesn't seem to play well with others. My requirements dictate a plastic chanter for the P1, so I bought a plastic Gibson chanter. The sound is vastly improved. Mr Gibson doesn't give these away.

- The drones aren't sufficiently easy to tune. I can get them adjusted in moments, but could be frustrating for a neophyte player. They don't have what I'd term a "bold" sound, nor do they "lock-in" and hold as wooden drones tend to do better.

- The dense plastic drones are affected noticeably with temperature change. Even after a few minutes playing in pleasant weather, they require re-tuning. If one stops between sets for more than a few moments, ya gotta tune them again. Performing with them in below freezing temperatures is particularly challenging if you wish to have passable sound.

- P1's seem more prone to moisture problems, again because they're plastic, so a water-trap is an assumed necessity. That adds to the final cost. Some moisture collection systems are pricey too.

These are my experiences with Dunbar P1's. I don't regret owning them and what they do well helps keep me in business.

Slan yall,
steve

[Mr. Woolery]

The local band has two sets of P1s, ostensibly as loaners. The way that came about was there were two band student pipers needing pipes at the same time. A well-respected piper from the Lower 48 insisted that the P1s were the best thing for a new piper (and that they cost less - which of course turned out to be erroneous), so both new folks were steered in this direction. Neither liked the pipes. At all. The experienced pipers had trouble keeping them in tune, the O-ring slides were hard to deal with, either being too tight or so loose that the drone telescopes under its own weight (same pipes, different drones), and they are really heavy. The band in embarrassment bought both sets from the pipers in question for full price, helping them to get wood pipes instead. For what it is worth, neither set of P1s is currently being played.

The condensation issue is another good point to make. Blackwood isn't really super-absorbent, but it does suck some moisture out of the air and seems to be a better thermal insulator than the delrin, which is a fairly good thermal conductor. Both qualities make for a lot less beading up of water inside the drones on wood pipes. Anyone considering pipes at this point probably has a good idea from the inside of his practice chanter whether he is a wet blower or not. If so, a plastic bagpipe needs a good moisture control setup.

Oh, another plastic option, other than Dunbar, is the Soutar poly pipes. At around $550 US from distributors, it is cheaper than the Dunbar, though a little smaller. Comes with synthetic bag and reeds. Just something to think about if plastic is your plan and you want to save a little green. These actually would be cheaper than wood pipes! I've not played them, but they are more attractive than the P1 to my eye. And Soutar has a great reputation for quality. Not that it matters, but I play Soutar reeds in my GHB chanter.

[Nighthawk]

And for your consideration... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFbxl7LtSbY Angus and his P3's. (Not to mention DidgeriDrew and his didgeridoo!! Holy crap, these guys are sweet!)

Incidentally, I had a coworker give me a 5 foot long didg. Now I need to learn how to play it!!

[JS Sanders]

I believe O-rings have been discontinued on Dunbar's. Dunno who came up with that brainstorm, but I coulda told 'em it wouldn't be practical in the real world. Probably some engineer talked them into it or the same goomer that thinks the joints should corked like clarinets and saxes.

I didn't mention their weight....

My preferred pipes are MacLellan's with bronze mounts and silver-clad tuning pins. They certainly aren't lightweight, and are on the heavy side. The P1's are close to the same. Delrin is a dense material.

As far as Soutar pipes, I have no experience and cannot advise either way.

Slan,
steve

[MadBagpiper]

P1's are great pipes. I've got a set along with a set of MacLellans.
The two sets are both extremely reliable and absolutely solid pipes. Now that I have a really nice set I can really see now that the Dunbars are worth every penny, not to mention the fact that the maintance on them is little to none! They've got good harmonics and they really blend nicely with a good chanter/reed setup (MacCallum chanters complement the drones quite nicely).
As for Soutars I havent really had much dealing with their pipes but their chanters and reeds leave very little to be desired. I've also heard about bad business with them (the makers). I would advise against them and go with the Dunbars from www.hotpipes.com

[kypnkilt]

As for Soutars I havent really had much dealing with their pipes but their chanters and reeds leave very little to be desired. I've also heard about bad business with them (the makers).

I will concur about the reeds and chanter, however, the pipes themselves are of good quality and I have dealt with Duncan in the past with positive results. There have been a few "bad apples" that have stirred the pot sort of speak in the recent past but has in no way diminished the final product. If Soutars were an option to buy, then I would highly suggest sticks and stocks only and build from there. They also make a very nice set of 3/4 pipes.

[Mr. Woolery]

I don't know about the chanters, but I can say that I've played several Soutar reeds, my instructor plays Soutar reeds, my son has a Soutar practice chanter, and none of these products has ever been faulty. In fact, given a choice between Shepherd reeds (great sounding if you get a good one, but they are generally in need of a bit of work when you get them) and Soutar reeds (very good sounding every time so far), I'd go for the reliability of the Soutar every time.

I'm not trying to endorse any particular product or maker, nor am I saying Dunbars are bad pipes. My experience with them is limited to the band sets that were not at all satisfactory and I don't know what they've done to improve things since then. I am only saying that if cost is the primary factor, there are other choices in the same price point. I see that MadBag is a fan of the P1s, everyone can see that I am not. Any purchase should be based on actual playing of the pipes if possible.

Again, the P1s are a starter or back-up instrument, not really the best for a main instrument. It isn't any harder (or substantially more expensive) to start with a good wooden instrument, so don't think that delrin is going to make your life any easier if you want to be a piper! It just means one set that you don't have to oil (gee, that's a total of less than an hour out of every year for me, what a hardship that is!) in exchange for which you paid as much as a blackwood set of similar or even much better aesthetic appearance.

Your money, your choice. I'd put my McCallums against the P1s in a sound-only comparison any day. And, as I showed above, McCallums are only $45 more than Dunbars (with decent reeds factored in) for real wood. I'll play my pipes in any weather I would be willing to play pipes in at all, so the weather-resistance of the plastic pipes isn't a big deal to me. And I bet I can play my wood pipes longer in wet weather than others can play the plastic ones!

Good to have the full range of possibilities discussed.

Hey, Kyp, what do you think of the Soutar 3/4 sized pipes? Been thinking of a set for my boy, as his blackwood pipes are too heavy for him right now.

-Patrick

[kypnkilt]

Hey, Kyp, what do you think of the Soutar 3/4 sized pipes? Been thinking of a set for my boy, as his blackwood pipes are too heavy for him right now.

I have seen (not played) these sets up close and held them. There is a definite difference not only in weight but it doesn't seem to be as cumbersome as regular size pipes. They're a good starter set for young'uns and the petite size ladies that have a hard time handling them when playing. I am afraid I am a poor judge of these because of my size...6'1" and broad-shouldered. It's like having toy pipes. In the local youth pipe band here (NWJPB), most, if not all, have the "full-meal-deal" by the age of 12. Normally I've seen those that are smaller in stature use thin foam pads on the shoulders and small bags. Also, the chanter stocks are tied in as far up the goose neck as possible to accommodate those shorter arms. That can be lengthened later as the person grows into them.

A great place to order just about any pipes is here at: www.highlandsource.com Howard Pollock is a great guy to deal with.

I also noticed (perhaps too late) is that McCallum is advertising their poly pipes as well. Probably give Dunbar a run for their money.