Waistcoat and belt

[M. A. C. Newsome]

About the kilt not fitting well -- are you fastening the straps as tightly as you can? You should be able to strap that kilt on as tightly as you can strap on a belt, so I would think it would stay in place fine without one, unless it is too loose.

Anyway, I would echo others advice to wear braces under the waistcoat and that will solve the problem. If you do want to wear a belt with the waistcoat, make sure it is designed to wear with a belt.

One reason why people advise not to wear a belt with a waistcoat is that you typically see only the bottom half of the belt peeking out from under the waistcoat, and it tends to look goofy. Exhibit A:


Or, if the waistcoat is long enough, it covers the whole belt and you don't see it at all anyway (and since most people wear the belt for looks, not to keep the kilt on...)

Here is a model with no belt, and you can see it presents a much cleaner look.


On the other hand, this tartan waistcoat that Sir Malcolm MacGregor is wearing in the below photo was designed to have a belt worn over it.

(This is not the most clear image, I realize. If anyone has other examples of a belt worn properly over a waistcoat, please post them here).

All examples of waistcoats with belts worn over them that I have seen have been for formal wear, so if you are looking for something that will work with more casual attire, I would again suggest the suspenders/braces.

[caig]

My Clan Chief ( Alwyne Farquharson) often wears a belt under his waistcoat, and on occasion he wears a SECOND belt over the top of the waistcoat.

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

[svc40bt]

I quite agree that half a belt showing under the waistcoat is not a good look. I also am considering the buttons on each apron solution for braces that a couple of members suggested. I was hoping to see a couple more photos of folks wearing a belt over a waistcoat as I remember seeing a couple posted here before.

As I said, I am considering making a waistcoat, perhaps from moleskin or microsuede; so I was wondering if I might cut it shorter and straight at the hem to show the entire belt, perhaps with straps to keep it down around the top of the kilt. Any opinions on this look?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

[svc40bt]

Let me be blunt and ask if you strap your belt under your gut? If you do, that would explain why you are having problems keeping the kilt in place. The kilt, like trousers, is designed to properly go around your natural waist, not under your tummy. If you are wearing your kilt around your waist (and by this I mean with the top of the kilt pretty much parallel with the floor), and you are still having slippage problems, then you need to wear braces to hold it in place (assuming, of course that the kilt is properly tailored, and fits).

Braces for kilts need to be fairly wide, at least and inch and a quarter in my experience. You will have to install six buttons on your kilt, and these should be placed as follows: two centered on the back, preferably inside the waistband about two inches apart and one inch below the top of the kilt; the other four go on the inside flap of the kilt, roughly in line with your nipples. These should be spaced the same as the two in the back, ie: an inch down and about two inches apart. The buttons need to be on the outside of the inner flap for two reasons: (1) they will need to be "backed" or reinforced on the opposite side of the flap to take the strain; (2) they are easier to "do up" if they are on the outside of the flap.

Like Jamie, McMurdo, and others have said, a belt isn't worn with a waistcoat, so if I were you I'd skip it, especially if you have a tendency to fasten it under your gut as this only accentuates the size of your tummy. Big time.

The danger of a flat bottomed waistcoat is that unless it is cut with sufficient length your shirt will have a tendency to show through the gaps as you walk, bend, or sit. This is more apt to occur with large men than with those of average or slender builds.

As posted elsewhere (and often):

I say do what you wish. There are no rules.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree-- rules exist to prevent people from making mistakes. To suggest that someone "ignore the rules" is to ignore the consequences of that advise. To tell anyone to "do as they wish as there are no rules" is, in my opinion, bad advice.

Please feel free to be blunt. The answer is no, I wear it around my waist, 1-2" above the navel. Trousers about 1" below the navel. Things want to slide down to the hip bones and under the gut. The broad belt helps, but either kilt or trousers require an occasional adjustment.

Braces are better at keeping things at the right level, but I like the look of the stout belt with the kilt, and it serves the additional practical purpose of providing someplace to mount my cell phone holster and work id holder.

In the end I probably will never get around to making a waistcoat, but you never know.

[Phil]

There are commercially available waistcoat patterns - my wife made me one which I have posted photos of previously. It is a high-buttoned design unlike the PC waistcoat and it is not usual to wear a belt over it. There are, of course, exceptions to every rule such as the gentleman clad in tartan from head to toe pictured earlier. I'm not sure that is the best example of highland dress however.

[JSFMACLJR]

On the other hand, this tartan waistcoat that Sir Malcolm MacGregor is wearing in the below photo was designed to have a belt worn over it.

(This is not the most clear image, I realize. If anyone has other examples of a belt worn properly over a waistcoat, please post them here).

All examples of waistcoats with belts worn over them that I have seen have been for formal wear, so if you are looking for something that will work with more casual attire, I would again suggest the suspenders/braces.

Matt,

Here is a photo of Sir Malcolm, which shows up a little better.




Cheers,
Sandford

[1MUNK3]

I'm in agreement with those that say no belt with waistcoat and if one must, a proper pair of braces. I would love to have a tartan (both front and back) waistcoat in my clan's colours (Cameron) cut on the bias. Do any of you fine lads know of a decent tailor to fit my needs? Thank you all in advance for your kind suggestions !

[Weasel Mender]

I'm in agreement with those that say no belt with waistcoat and if one must, a proper pair of braces. I would love to have a tartan (both front and back) waistcoat in my clan's colours (Cameron) cut on the bias. Do any of you fine lads know of a decent tailor to fit my needs? Thank you all in advance for your kind suggestions !

Ron... Riverkilt has a very classy one done in X-Marks tartan. I belive it was made by Kathy Lare. Ron correct me if I am wrong.

Weasel

[Bugbear]

I just looked at my kilt, and I don't see any reason to put buttons on the outside apron. The underapron strap, stabilizer, and left buckle seem to be completing a circle that carries the tension. There is some tension between the left buckle, across the top apron, to the right strap and buckle, but it isn't much compared to the other.

That little bit of tension on the top apron should be enough to keep it in place with the underapron if the braces are attached to the underapron.

As far as I can tell, that is what MacMillan of Rathdown is saying to do, and if you put the buttons on the front side of the underapron, as he says, you will be able to brace upeasily before strapping on the top apron.