Drum major of inauguration pipe band suspended, quits

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I think the whole thing is ridiculous; he nodded a respectful greeting when meeting the eyes of the new President. I find no fault in that whatsoever.

Suppose he had been the Drum Major of the Band of the United States Marine Corps. Should he have turned his head, met the eyes of the president, and nodded? Or should he have followed orders, "Eyes front, and keep marching".

Now I admit the "offense" was trivial, but then so is failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign on a country road at three AM. But even trivial actions may have consequences; and when they do, the people involved have to suck it up and move on.

[Moski]

Suppose he had been the Drum Major of the Band of the United States Marine Corps. Should he have turned his head, met the eyes of the president, and nodded? Or should he have followed orders, "Eyes front, and keep marching".

Ok first off it was not, as often stated, a millitary band so lets stick to apples. Secondly, any Orders to the Marine DM come upon the authority of the President through his chain of command. I didn't vote for the man but I Will, as a civilian not under orders, acknowledge the elected President of my country if he acknowledges me. Rendering Honors and Respect to The President trumps smaller stuff.

BTW, I have been in too many parades for dignitaries and all I saw was the knobby back of another GI's head.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Ok first off it was not, as often stated, a millitary band so lets stick to apples.

No one on this thread has ever stated, not once and certainly not often, that the Cleveland FD Pipe Band was a military band. How do you like those apples?

Secondly, any Orders to the Marine DM come upon the authority of the President through his chain of command.

The parade is organized by the DoD, who invite other organizations to take part. The DoD takes it's orders from... the president. All organizations participating in the parade were told that ONLY military units would acknowledge or salute the president.

I didn't vote for the man but I Will, as a civilian not under orders, acknowledge the elected President of my country if he acknowledges me.

Even if you were leading a pipe band and had been expressly instructed not to? Hmmm. Okay. I could understand that if you were walking down the street and the president leaned out of his car window and shouted, "HEY! MOSKI!" Under those circumstances it would probably be churlish not to acknowledge his cheery greeting. As an aside, I don't exactly recall seeing the president go out of his way to attract the attention of the DM of the Cleveland FD Pipe Band.

Rendering Honors and Respect to The President trumps smaller stuff.

If you say so, and I happen to agree. The president is entitled to respect, whether one voted for him or not. But you've avoided answering the question. All I asked for was a simple "yes" or "no", not a political or moral justification for ignoring the rules. That's all.

[Larry124]

...But you've avoided answering the question. All I asked for was a simple "yes" or "no", not a political or moral justification for ignoring the rules. That's all.

You framed your question. He framed his answer.
You can ask for what you wish. And label your required answer "simple" if you wish. And interpret rules as you wish.
A respondent is equally entitled to make his own answer. To choose to agree to your "yes or no" request. Or not.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

You framed your question. He framed his answer.
You can ask for what you wish. And label your required answer "simple" if you wish. And interpret rules as you wish.
A respondent is equally entitled to make his own answer. To choose to agree to your "yes or no" request. Or not.

You are, of course, correct. But so far, no one has answered the question that I have posed.

Since you seem to be responding to an exchange between Moski and me, perhaps you could give his posting a quick re-read and then point out to me where I missed his answer to my original question:

"When leading his band in a parade, should any Drum Major wave to a member of the crowd?"

[Derek Conley]

Suppose he had been the Drum Major of the Band of the United States Marine Corps. Should he have turned his head, met the eyes of the president, and nodded? Or should he have followed orders, "Eyes front, and keep marching".

Now I admit the "offense" was trivial, but then so is failing to come to a complete stop at a stop sign on a country road at three AM. But even trivial actions may have consequences; and when they do, the people involved have to suck it up and move on.

I understand your point and can completely see where you're coming from. I really do.

But in this instance, being that he's a civilian, I really can't find fault in what he did. There's no standard of military bearing which he needs to uphold and, due to that, has the freedom of being a civilian to acknowledge someone of import during a situation he may very well never find himself in again.

Regarding your example of the stop sign; yes, it's trivial... however... the repercussions for a civilian doing such a thing versus someone like me, would be worlds different. I'd suffer much stronger and stringent consequences for something so "minor", whereas a civilian may suffer nothing whatsoever. I believe this holds true in regards to the topic at hand.

I think this is all a matter of perspective, really, and I respect your views on it. I simply cannot bring myself to find fault in this gentleman... again, primarily, due to his civilian status.

[pipe23]

As the story developed on the Dunsire forum, there may be internal conflicts within the band that contributed to the mess. The DM at the center of attention is well-known to some pipers I play with, who are former or current PM's of well-respected East Coast Police and/or Firefighter pipe bands, as a stand-up guy, Yes, the order was given that only military bands could acknowledge the POTUS, and the Cleveland band, (some argument here), either is or is not a para-military organization. There apparently were "other bands who complained" but who they were is a mystery.
As I watched the parade live, and later DVR'd the C-Span re-broadcast I noticed quite a few acknowledgements, nods, waves or whatever by non-military marchers obviously directed at the POTUS, who, at least during the first hour of the parade who waving and acknowledging them. He was also saluting at times, and I think he got corrected at one point by a Joint Chief because he, the POTUS, started putting his hand over his heart, and then went back to saluting a short time later.
I guess my point is that as a military parade this wasn't Red Square, there was a lawnmower contingent and various other non-military components, an internal conflict was probably the key ingredient in this mess, and it should have been dealt with in a different manner than it was, quietly behind the scene, because after all it is a trivial incident and the DM has quit, the band manager also quit, the PM is generally getting pilloried, and the band has to deal with this incident hanging over their heads. Hopefully the band will recover from this and it will be forgotten, but knowing how service bands operate there may very well be either some repercussions or more likely some friendly needling from other bands in the future.

[Moski]

No one on this thread has ever stated, not once and certainly not often, that the Cleveland FD Pipe Band was a military band. How do you like those apples?

I was saying that it was stated over and again that this was not a military band, so the question about the Marine Corps Band is not a fair comparison. Most of the Marines that I know and served with would likely keep rank through a firestorm, esp. with the President in review. Exemplary Military discipline you would expect from our elite. I'm just saying that this whole thing is overblown and the action was used as an excuse to take action citing the sheer heinousness of the offense.