Anniversary of Glencoe Massacre 2/13, missed this year but not forgotten

[ForresterModern]

If you were offended by Baynes & Laffin's remarks, then I am sorry Jeff, but you'll need to take it up with them. Whilst the dependents of the Glencoe McDonalds were certainly innocent, I don't think we can say that their warrirors were totally innocent, if they did participate in raids on Glenlyon country. I also don't think Baynes and Laffin were trying to "disparage" their memory, but rather tell another part of the story that doesn't often get told, which doesn't make it out of context, but rather helps tell the whole story -- if anything, it places the story of Glencoe in context of what was going on in Scotland at that time, and helps explain why the story was so tragic.

I'm also sorry you see no value to "in-depth histories" to help in telling this particular story and memorializing the dead. As a former park ranger at a Civil War Battlefield, I did both in my duties -- not only did we ensure the most accurate story was told, but we also honoured the fallen, no matter what side they serve on, as part of our mission. It was a responsibility I took very seriously and still do when I teach a history class.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with memorializing the Glencoe McDonalds. What I have a problem with is the fact that many today use that tragic incident to foster petty hatred of people (i.e. the Campbells) who had nothing to do with the incident. I've seen this first hand, and quite frankly, it's a bit silly. It does a disservice to both sides.

Sincerely,

Todd

Todd

I value history as much as the next man, but there is a time and a place for everything, and this thread was not the time or place to trample on the graves of the Glencoe MacDonalds with a "they had it coming" quote sloughed off on some other authors, as if you had no responsibility for putting it in this thread.

The thread was started with a simple memorial to the fallen, I believe deftly avoiding the issues of conflict and background, not to further fan the flames of longstanding clan feuds or unrelated skullduggery. And if you will carefully re-read my posts to date you will find that there has NOT been any use of this thread to foster any petty hatreds, specifically for the Campbells or anyone else. You may have seen it first hand somewhere else, but NOT in the original post, and not in any of my subsequent posts in the thread. So there was NO reason for you to bring it up here as an issue.

It seems, Todd, that the only one on a soapbox in this thread is you.

MODERATORS, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. THANK YOU ALL.

jeff

[macwilkin]

Todd

I value history as much as the next man, but there is a time and a place for everything, and this thread was not the time or place to trample on the graves of the Glencoe MacDonalds with a "they had it coming" quote sloughed off on some other authors, as if you had no responsibility for putting it in this thread.

The thread was started with a simple memorial to the fallen, I believe deftly avoiding the issues of conflict and background, not to further fan the flames of longstanding clan feuds or unrelated skullduggery. And if you will carefully re-read my posts to date you will find that there has NOT been any use of this thread to foster any petty hatreds, specifically for the Campbells or anyone else. You may have seen it first hand somewhere else, but NOT in the original post, and not in any of my subsequent posts in the thread. So there was NO reason for you to bring it up here as an issue.

It seems, Todd, that the only one on a soapbox in this thread is you.

MODERATORS, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. THANK YOU ALL.

jeff

Jeff,

Again, I am sorry if I offended you by quoting two respected historians & their comments on the massacre. For the record, I was simply responding to a comment that Anne had made with another viewpoint -- I had no intention of being on my soapbox, but if I have been perceived that way, then I am truly sorry.

I quoted Baynes and Laffin because quite frankly, I thought it was an important viewpoint to bring up in relation to Anne's comments. It's been posted on this forum a number of times before with no one taking the offense you seem to be doing now. Historians have a way of doing that, I suppose, especially when they present "unpopular" findings.

Whenever we would observe our battle's anniversary date, we would usually have a historian speak and present a particular viewpoint, which would not always be the popular one -- yet if we truly are committed, as you say, to not further fan the flames, shouldn't education fall within the honest and sincere efforts to remember the fallen?

Sincerely & Respectfully,

Todd

[Paul]

Todd

I value history as much as the next man, but there is a time and a place for everything, and this thread was not the time or place to trample on the graves of the Glencoe MacDonalds with a "they had it coming" quote sloughed off on some other authors, as if you had no responsibility for putting it in this thread.

The thread was started with a simple memorial to the fallen, I believe deftly avoiding the issues of conflict and background, not to further fan the flames of longstanding clan feuds or unrelated skullduggery. And if you will carefully re-read my posts to date you will find that there has NOT been any use of this thread to foster any petty hatreds, specifically for the Campbells or anyone else. You may have seen it first hand somewhere else, but NOT in the original post, and not in any of my subsequent posts in the thread. So there was NO reason for you to bring it up here as an issue.

It seems, Todd, that the only one on a soapbox in this thread is you.

MODERATORS, PLEASE CLOSE THIS THREAD. THANK YOU ALL.

jeff

Jeff, I realise you are trying to get the mods to close the thread and I don't blame you.
I read through each post and you have attempted to commemorate a massacre from a very distant, unbiased perspective to honor those to died, and yet not involve the thread with argumentative views on the background of the event. I do not pick up a sense that you are attempting to shovel blame onto anyone's part and you certainly said what you said very fairly.

[macwilkin]

Jeff, I realise you are trying to get the mods to close the thread and I don't blame you.
I read through each post and you have attempted to commemorate a massacre from a very distant, unbiased perspective to honor those to died, and yet not involve the thread with argumentative views on the background of the event. I do not pick up a sense that you are attempting to shovel blame onto anyone's part and you certainly said what you said very fairly.

Paul, I agree with you -- I think Jeff's intentions were honourable, as were mine. He was 100% correct in honouring Glencoe, and very fair and balanced in doing so. My comments were in response to others that were also sincerely meant as well.

I'm only sorry Jeff took offense at my presenting alternative viewpoints. Again, no malice was meant on my part.

T.

[Dixiecat]

I value history as much as the next man, but there is a time and a place for everything

Hmmm. I have read this thread to gather the opinions and history lessons offered by our more learned members. In that they are more learned than me on this subject, and I'm too lazy to google...

Anyway. ForresterModern, as a one-time history major, I have tried to view history as something that teaches us to deal with the future. History is never perfect, never neat, and there's never a perfect viewpoint.

What I can't understand is, why even bother to start a thread on such a tragic event, if you can't be open to calm and rational discussion. You have chosen to honour the fallen on one hand, yet are closing your mind to the ramifications of doing that. Your statement that I quoted above is saying that it's ok for you to make a comment about history, but if someone else comments on it, it's not the right time for discussion. I'm sorry, but you opened the can, right or wrong.

I'm with you though. It was a tragic event. However, it doesn't stand alone as a fly in amber. History flows.

Don't close this thread.

[Jock Scot]

Oh come chaps, give poor old ForresterM a chance! He has gone out of his way to steer the middle ground by rightfully acknowledging other atrocities in Scots history and openly stated that he was trying to avoid the political perspective and had no intention in apportioning blame. All he wanted to do is remember a specific tragic event without the historical hair splitting. Come on chaps, let us remember those that died in those dreadful circumstances, all those years ago. No more and no less.

[macwilkin]

Post deleted.

[ForresterModern]

Oh come chaps, give poor old ForresterM a chance! He has gone out of his way to steer the middle ground by rightfully acknowledging other atrocities in Scots history and openly stated that he was trying to avoid the political perspective and had no intention in apportioning blame. All he wanted to do is remember a specific tragic event without the historical hair splitting. Come on chaps, let us remember those that died in those dreadful circumstances, all those years ago. No more and no less.

Thank you Jock.

[macwilkin]

Since it was my post that offended Jeff, I would like to formally apologize to him for what I believe was a misunderstanding, specifically the reference to a quote from Historians John Baynes and John Laffin. I used that quote in a reply to some comments made to Anne (Pleater), and not to Jeff's OP.

For the record, I thought Anne's post was above board in terms of the sentiment behind it, and I was simply offering an alternate view of the Glencoe Massacre from two noted historians, one of them an ex-officer of the Cameronian Regiment.

At no time did I ever imply or infer that Jeff was trying to stoke anti-Campbell hatred with this post. I did make a general statement about that sort of thing, and I should have been more specific that I did not (and do not) feel that it was Jeff's intention to do so in this thread. As I've stated before, I believe Jeff's intentions were strictly honourable, and like Jock, I also felt he did a good job in taking the middle ground here.

To Jeff (and anyone else): I am sorry if I offended. It's a historian's job to "split hairs", and sometimes we forget that not everyone wants to do so. If I have caused offense, then I am truly, truly sorry.

Sincerely.

Todd

[Dixiecat]

Oh come chaps, give poor old ForresterM a chance! He has gone out of his way to steer the middle ground by rightfully acknowledging other atrocities in Scots history and openly stated that he was trying to avoid the political perspective and had no intention in apportioning blame. All he wanted to do is remember a specific tragic event without the historical hair splitting. Come on chaps, let us remember those that died in those dreadful circumstances, all those years ago. No more and no less.

Agreed. I read the same posts however, and didn't see any hair-splitting. In fact, I found it all quite informative as I haven't got any in-depth knowledge regarding the event. To me, it's a matter that 'it happened' and that's that. Glean some knowledge from it if you can. If there was any blame throwing in this thread, I didn't see it and I don't condemn anyone (the perpetrators) because of it. I always remember that biblical quote about the plank in one's eye and it's removal.

I'm just saying that the OP is over reacting. If he truly believes that this is not a time and place for history, then his original post must be deleted and the whole issue forgotten. I don't think it should be. It should be remembered and we all should learn from it.