mourning dress

[ThistleDown]

I am sorry, but I have to say this to you all. I don't know if you have Scots connections to fall back on, or kilt wearing is just a new thing that you have taken to, but a funeral is the one place not to show off at. There really are times when wearing the kilt should take second place to the occasion and wearing the kilt to a funeral may not be the most sensitive thing to do in some circumstances.

Jock, I think more than half the congregation understands, so you need not apologise. The problem the others face is not knowing the intricacies of dress Highland or not, and on top of that the difficulty of translating what they know to be correct in their own culture to what is correct in another, when they are transporting a part of that other culture into their own.

A few weeks ago I attended a gathering (neither a funeral, nor a formal memorial service) for a late friend in Oregon. I could have worn whatever was required by the family, but there were no demands made. I wore, therefore, what I would usually wear for such an occasion: a tweed jacket, charcoal grey tie. kilt, brown leather sporran and black brogues. I felt appropriately dressed but several comments were made regarding the absent bagpipes I was expected to carry and play.

I did not overhear comment to or about the several lads and girls who wore t-shirts and flip-flops, the men who were tie-less and the ladies who chose to wear lovely spring frocks.

They were not embarassed, but I was. I will enquire more closely in the Pacific Northwest in the future.

[Jock Scot]

Not a bad send off for the former Mr. Wolrige-Gordon, I'm sure his Grandmother, Mrs. Hubert Walter (née MacLeod) would have approved.

I cannot fault you with your facts, but I detect a scent of sarcasm and facetiousness and they are both unnecessary and inappropriate.

[PEEDYC]

I think you are quite right to be cautious in your circumstance. Funerals are a time of distress and raw feelings and to wear something out of the ordinary, as far as your family, any family for that matter, is concerned, could well cause unnecessary upset.

I am sorry, but I have to say this to you all. I don't know if you have Scots connections to fall back on, or kilt wearing is just a new thing that you have taken to, but a funeral is the one place not to show off at. There really are times when wearing the kilt should take second place to the occasion and wearing the kilt to a funeral may not be the most sensitive thing to do in some circumstances.

I currently live in England and only wear my kilt on "special" occasions. At funerals I have been commended for wearing my kilt as it is taken as a sign of respect in that I have made an effort for the occasion. My closest friend lost their son (39) a couple of years back and the mother actually said to me that if I wore my kilt daily and then wore it to a funeral it would actually detract from the moment as she would see it as "normal" day wear for me and not seen as a special occasion albeit a sad one. That is not the only time I have been thanked for wearing my kilt but unfortunately at my age the occasions are become more regular.

I wear a black shirt and tie with a dark grey tweed argyle jacket. The belt buckle is bronzed rather than silver coloured as is the decoration on my sgian dubh. I wear a plain black leather day sporran with no tassles. Most of my friends have seen me in my full Prince Charlie outfit for New Year etc and very much appreciate the difference.

[Jock Scot]

PeedyC.

In the great scheme of things it matters not one jot what I happen to think. For what it is worth though, the family involved, know you and respect you for who you are and were happy with what you did and that is marvellous.

What I am really trying to say in all this, is for people to be aware of what they are doing at a very sensitive time for others and sometimes we might have to consider forgoing what we might want for the benefit of others.

[PEEDYC]

I suppose it depends very much on how a ceremony such as a funeral is expected to be conducted. I have never been to New Orleans one but I would love a send off the way they do it. My family and most of my friends have always seen funerals as a time to celebrate and honour the life of the person and not a time for mourning. There is time in private for that afterwards. We usually have a good party (wake) after and all seem to enjoy the event with a laugh and a joke. It is obviously different in many countries when it is a time for wailing, sack cloth and ashes and a public show of grief.

When I was in Gambia last a funeral procession passed me. It was men only and they carried the coffin around the village with horns and whistles and trumpets blaring. Not one wore any black. At first I thought it was a bachelor party as that is what they do to the groom (obviously not in a coffin)

I say each to their own as long as you don't disrespect the person or their family.

[Cygnus]

I currently live in England and only wear my kilt on "special" occasions. At funerals I have been commended for wearing my kilt as it is taken as a sign of respect in that I have made an effort for the occasion. My closest friend lost their son (39) a couple of years back and the mother actually said to me that if I wore my kilt daily and then wore it to a funeral it would actually detract from the moment as she would see it as "normal" day wear for me and not seen as a special occasion albeit a sad one. That is not the only time I have been thanked for wearing my kilt but unfortunately at my age the occasions are become more regular.

I wear a black shirt and tie with a dark grey tweed argyle jacket. The belt buckle is bronzed rather than silver coloured as is the decoration on my sgian dubh. I wear a plain black leather day sporran with no tassles. Most of my friends have seen me in my full Prince Charlie outfit for New Year etc and very much appreciate the difference.

As I had said, it certainly depends on the family involved and your own culture and habits. It is wonderful that your gesture was received so well and your intentions weren't misconstrued.
From your profile I see you were born in Scotland and so have a much closer connection to the kilt and Highland traditions than I have (my most recent family connection to Scotland is an ancestor who left in 1863).

If I were to wear a kilt, I think people would generally take it a bit differently.

[auld argonian]

Funeral Etiquette by Mark Twain

Do not criticize the person in whose honor the entertainment is given.

Make no remarks about his equipment. If the handles are plated, it is best to seem to not observe it.

If the odor of the flowers is too oppressive for your comfort, remember that they were not brought there for you, and that the person for whom they were brought suffers no inconvenience from their presence.

Listen, with as intense an expression of attention as you can command, to the official statement of the character and history of the person in whose honor the entertainment is given; and if these statistics should seem to fail to tally with the facts, in places, do not nudge your neighbor, or press your foot upon his toes, or manifest, by any other sign, your awareness that taffy is being distributed.

If the official hopes expressed concerning the person in whose honor the entertainment is given are known by you to be oversized, let it pass -- do not interrupt.

At the moving passages, be moved -- but only according to the degree of your intimacy with the parties giving the entertainment, or with the party in whose honor the entertainment is given. Where a blood relation sobs, an intimate friend should choke up, a distant acquaintance should sigh, a stranger should merely fumble sympathetically with his handkerchief. Where the occasion is military, the emotions should be graded according to military rank, the highest officer present taking precedence in emotional violence, and the rest modifying their feelings according to their position in the service.

Do not bring your dog.



Best

AA

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Not a bad send off for the former Mr. Wolrige-Gordon, I'm sure his Grandmother, Mrs. Hubert Walter (née MacLeod) would have approved.

Dear Mr. Aikens,

I am somewhat surprised to see your opinions once again gracing this forum with your usual tasteless and ill-informed comments. Like those who through the circumstances of their education drop the letter "H" in speech, I note that you have dropped one of the letters "K" in your on-line signature. Your snide comments aside, for where you live it may be the perceived social custom for a woman to forfeit her identity upon marriage, such is definitely not the case in Scotland.

Genetically, as well as legally in Scotland, one inherits equally from both parents. Thus, a married woman in Scotland is correctly styled "Mary McTavish, Mrs. John Smith". Should she and her husband have children it would be proper for them to assume, or be given, either surname or a combination of both (Freddie McTavish-Smith).

The clearest example would be the marriage of the Countess of Erroll (chief of clan Hay) and Sir Iain Moncrieff (chief of clan Moncrieff). They had two sons, Merlin and Peregrine. Merlin, the eldest, was given his mother's name (Hay) and in the fullness of time became both Chief of clan Hay and Earl of Erroll. Later, following the death of his father, the younger son (Peregrine) who bore the name Moncrieff became the chief of that illustrious clan.

The same set of circumstances quite properly occurred in the case of the Macleod chiefship-- a set of facts of which you were most obviously ignorant when you posted your original comment.

In any event, should I have misconstrued the intent of your posting, and I rather doubt that I have, given that you have been banned from X Marks the Scot in the past for this sort of thing, I should point out that my purpose was merely to shed a bit of light on the subject of the status of surnames in Scotland.

[The Celtic Gypsy]

I have been reading the replies since my last post. I Only remember two mourning tartans, Stewart and Scott. When I first saw these I thought it was interesting but as i searched other clans for these mourning tartans, i realized it was either something no longer used or a "modern" take on tartans. But as I read the replies, I came to the conclusion mourning tartans are a modern invention possibly to carry on the rather romantic idea of the Victorian mind on the Highlander clans.

As for tartan at a funeral, here is an interesting story. My family kind of a friend of mind who is alone. She plays the pipes and is very proud of her Scottish heritage. My dad always told he wanted her to pipe him into the church for his funeral. It all happened sooner than any of us wanted. She was quite upset by his death, still she complied with his wishes. She also called on two of her friends to help, one on the pipes and one on drums. Not only did they play at the church, they also played at the cemetery. It was very moving for all of there. All three wore their kilts even tho none of my family asked for that because Lynn knew that would have pleased my Dad. And it surely would have.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

I have occasionally wondered if someone hasn't mis-spelled "morning" when trying to describe a tartan intended to be worn with formal day wear. As has been pointed out above, the time required to weave the tartan and make up the kilt would far exceed the three days normally allotted between the death and interment of an individual. Likewise, it is unlikely that mourners would have a kilt laying around to be worn on the odd occasion when it was necessary to attend a funeral. It does, however, seem plausible that one might have a special tartan woven for formal day wear-- certainly not a common occurrence, but one more likely than having a tartan restricted to funereal observances.