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26th July 11, 10:06 AM
#21
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by English Bloke
![Funmeter2](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/smilies/funmeter2.gif)
I do enjoy reading these threads. So much to learn... Fascinating stuff.
Is it a Maxwell tartan and the error is the grey-blue tramlines should be green?
EDIT: Mmmmm, further research tells me the Maxwell is a Vestiarium Scoticum creation so probably not.
Maxwell... It does look similar to me.
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by figheadair
Mmmmm, definitely not.
Not Maxwell. Recognise it?
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26th July 11, 11:15 AM
#22
I'm a bit embarrassed to say I didn't recognize it at first, but that's an old MacQuarrie tartan, isn't it? Is that one from the Highland Society collection?
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26th July 11, 11:28 AM
#23
Well I must admit, I didn't have a clue to the identity of this tartan. So many tartans, especially older tartans, really look very similar to my uneducated eye.
I really enjoy these posts and they are very informative and educational. I guess I don't respond often; that way my ignorance wont show.
Gu dùbhlanach
Coinneach Mac Dhòmhnaill
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26th July 11, 01:25 PM
#24
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
I'm a bit embarrassed to say I didn't recognize it at first, but that's an old MacQuarrie tartan, isn't it? Is that one from the Highland Society collection?
Bang on Matt.
Here is the original compared with a reconstructed graphic.
![](http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/bradan667/Tartan/JulyTOM.jpg)
![](http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/bradan667/Tartan/july.jpg)
The fragment is all that I've had access to for a couple of years. It's an offcut of the larger piece in the HSL which I've been trying to get access to for a couple of years but the whole collection and anything else in the archives has been unavailable to study whilst there's a major refurbishment programme going on. All very frustrating.
The sample is interesting because it is what I would describe as rural weave as opposed to the majority of the early HSL samples which were of Wilsons' cloth. This one is in a different league and I suspect was actually provided to/by the chief from his lands. Whether than was Ulva or elsewhere I cannot say but the herringbone selvedge suggests that this was originally a plaid/plaiding. Clearly hand woven from hand spun yarn, this piece is almost certainly much earlier than the HSL. I'd date is anywhere between c1740-80 and probably nearer the '45 end of that spectrum.
The irregular sequence at the red/pink pivot is undoubtedly the weaver's error. Note it's in the weft and very easy to do and miss until one trys to match the sett when joining the two halves.
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26th July 11, 01:48 PM
#25
Oooooh yeah... I see the thin pink on the inside edges of the broad greens now. I didn't even notice those before.
Last edited by English Bloke; 26th July 11 at 01:56 PM.
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26th July 11, 02:50 PM
#26
I've been looking at this all month thinking the tartan looked familiar but I think what was throwing me was the irregular bit of blue by the red/pink pivot.
It would be interesting to have that reproduced one day. Most MacQuarries now use the tartan that is similar to the Lord of the Isles/MacDonald of Sleat tartan. But there are several older setts. I had this one made up a while back.
![](https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-P7FT3POWue8/R9W1mA2iaYI/AAAAAAAAImE/Ndw9q7-AreY/s912/100_1105.jpg)
Although I must say I like the azure and rose colors in the one in your fragment. And if you think it dates back to the mid-1700s it is likely the oldest sett on record.
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26th July 11, 04:24 PM
#27
In looking at this specimen under a high zoom, I notice that there are two threads of blue between the green and red. Do you know if this feature is consistent throughout, Peter, or is that one of the mysteries we'll have to wait for the larger piece to solve?
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26th July 11, 05:24 PM
#28
Peter,
I enjoy these threads rather much, but admit I am woefully illequipped to offer even the least bit of an educated guess about identifying any of them.
Can anyone make herringbone selvedge anymore, or is it among the lost arts?
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26th July 11, 10:44 PM
#29
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by M. A. C. Newsome
In looking at this specimen under a high zoom, I notice that there are two threads of blue between the green and red. Do you know if this feature is consistent throughout, Peter, or is that one of the mysteries we'll have to wait for the larger piece to solve?
Well spotted Matt. I'd missed that.
Here's an extract at a higher-res to show the detail (turned through 90o to fit the page). You'll see that there is only one blue thread, the second one in, and that in fact the colouration is inconsistent and that at some points it's green.
![](http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/bradan667/Tartan/july_ex.jpg)
I've no doubt that what we have here is an example of faulty dyeing. Green was normally, probably always, made by dyeing yarn blue and then top dyeing with a yellow. An area where any dye doesn't take fully is the result of one of several causes including: the skein being tied too tightly; being unevenly mordanted; a section being dry or contaminated in some way.
I expect that this faulty dyed thread would run across the width of the cloth for some way, maybe the whole width, maybe part-way, maybe back again for some distance. I guarantee that it won't appear in the same place throughout the piece but such poor dyeing is likely to appear elsewhere in the cloth as and when that dyed section of the skein appears. It's likely that it will appear in both warp and weft.
Such dyeing faults are not uncommon in C18th specimens and even today amongst natural dyers and result from dyeing, generally large quantities of yarn, with poor equipment in bad conditions.
Finally, the other thing that such a fault confirms is that the dyeing was done as it is today, after the yarn was spun as opposed to dyeing 'in-the-fleece' which is the practice for tweed.
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26th July 11, 10:52 PM
#30
![Quote](http://www.xmarksthescot.com/forum/images/misc/quote_icon.png) Originally Posted by AKScott
Peter,
I enjoy these threads rather much, but admit I am woefully illequipped to offer even the least bit of an educated guess about identifying any of them.
Can anyone make herringbone selvedge anymore, or is it among the lost arts?
I generally weave my cloth with a herringbone selvedge. Here's an example.
![](http://i929.photobucket.com/albums/ad137/bradan667/Tartan/SUistPleat.jpg)
Commercial it can be done and in fact I've been involved with getting some done for a client recently. The difficulty is that the 'Trade' don't understand the process nowadays and so I have to lay out the warping and threading instructions for them including offsetting the sett in order to fit it to the loom.
All things are possible, there's just a premium to the cost and will depend on the technical difficulty and the quantity ordered.
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