Teaching selflessness -- an essay, and request for ideas

[Cygnus]

Well and nobly said, Jeff! I agree!

It may seem odd that I agree with Jeff after my somewhat draconian recommendations in my previous post, so I feel I should explain their compatibility. It would seem that a classroom setting as disruptive as the one described in the first post would be a nearly impossible place to learn, even for those that are motivated to do so. If I were in CDNSushi's place, I would do everything I could to remove those disruptions (even if it means allowing some students to fail) so that I could properly teach the few that have a desire to learn.

[Father Bill]

Hi.

I was going to stay out of this at first because I've moved on in my first career seven years back, but I just can't stay away, I guess.

I taught and led schools for much younger children, Sushi, and one of the things we were always aware of was the research that told us that by age 3, 80% of the "bulk learning" that was going to take place already had - things like "there are toes down there." "They're attached to me." "I can wiggle them," etc. Now obviously and assuredly, what you are teaching, and what we were teaching even at a kindergarten level is far more advanced than that, BUT, it's only the last 20% Pareto's principle: 80% of the work takes 20% of the effort, and vice-versa. That means that in a very real way, even at the kindergarten level, my teachers were doing mostly remedial and enrichment work, and attitudes towards society, self, and learning are definitely in the first 80% Take a look at the work of Dr. Morris Massey http://www.enterprisemedia.com/produ...hen_again.html for a rather scary but humourous look at that.

What you're fighting, as were we, is the vast amount of teaching that has already been done by parents, peers, and society. They'll be interested in whatever they'll be interested in, and selflessness is not something easily taught... but there is a fledgling program here in Ontario that has shown some real success called "Roots of Empathy." http://www.rootsofempathy.org/en/wha...r-program.html and other search items will bring it up fairly quickly. It's designed for much younger children, but you might be able to adapt the concept.

Other than that, taking a look at the theory behind it may give you some other ideas too. I wish you well - it's a problem which has bedevilled educators and will, for a long, long time. If I think of anything else, I'll get back to you.

[CMcG]

<snip>
Thinking long and hard about why students could not set aside their cigarettes and cars and sports for even 30 seconds, I've come up with this hypothesis. These things (cigarettes, cars, and sports) are what's important to them, and really, at this point in their lives, very little else is.

...

This is where I turn to my friends, colleagues, and other educators. Is it possible to teach / learn the importance of selflessness and sacrifice? Can it be done in a way that students adopt it and put it into practice? Or is it a lost cause? Are we just banging on a drum, making noise and not achieving anything? Further, if you DO believe that these lessons are teachable / learnable, is it possible to do in a secular context? Or are we obliged to turn to spirituality, religion, and a belief in shomething greater than ourselves?

I think that selflessness and sacrifice can be taught, but not in the situation you have described. In fact, I don't believe that teaching those things is within the purview of an English teacher. CNDSushi, I commend you for your efforts but you are probably barking up the wrong proverbial tree.

I guess I will dissent a little. Your students do not lack in motivation. They are simply motivated in other ways and by other ideas than you. You can try to force them to accept your views or you can teach and lead them by using theirs.

In my experience teaching electronic music at the university level, I've found a lot of truth to what mull has written. Students today are highly motivated in regards to the things that they care about.

CNDSushi has made it clear that his students are quite interested in cars, cigarettes, and sports. They might also be interested in technology, popular music, movies, fashion, and the opposite sex. The pedagogical question at hand might better be framed as: how can one teach English using the interests of the students to motivate them?

When it comes to electronic music, my students are generally not interested in the theories of acoustics, art music, or audio engineering. They are, however, really into rock, hip hop, and dance music. I have had to find ways to teach them the theory that I want them to understand by couching it in ways that they are willing to engage with.

I keep coming back to the old adage "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink."

Or as my University Teaching and Learning professor would say "you can lead a student to knowledge but you can't make them think."

One of the newer education models being promoted these days is to focus on learning as opposed to knowledge. The basic premise is that if an educator can help a student learn how to learn, they are set for life. Sort of like teaching someone how to fish (a life skill) instead of just giving them a fish (one meal).

Within this educational paradigm and specific to CNDSushi's situation, the goal would be to help students learn how to learn English. The motivation is there in terms of their existing interests but must be harnessed towards the goal.

[MrLion]

I've been reading this large book by Charles Colson, "How NOW shall we live"
I think it covers the root of the problem (and answers) extensively.

http://www.amazon.com/How-Now-Shall-.../dp/0842318089

[MacLowlife]

I have had to skim much of this thread, but I have a few ideas to contribute. The first is that what you describe sounds to me like immaturity, maybe coupled with rudeness. I remember a discussion with a law school professor in the mid 1980s in which he said "Law Students are the only people who want less than they pay for." What he meant was that the average law student much preferred a "free cut" ( a canceled class- a day off) over an hour of discussion and learning with a professor.

I know I surely did.

I was raised to be generous, if not quite selfless. But, at 26 or so, I still preferred to goof off when I had the chance. My belief is that many of your students are just prolonging adolescence. My conduct today is not exemplary. I have a hard time being selfless when people get on what is known around here as My Last Nerve. But, were I to pay my own money to go to school, I would probably prefer an hour of lecture over a "free cut" today. Maybe that is what time has taught me.

I guess the real hope you have is to awaken early that maturity. I believe you have already tried to show your students that it is in their interest to learn. That seems to me to be different from selflessness. Many people will tell you that enlightened self interest is a much stronger (or at least more frequently occurring) force than selflessness. It also seems to me to be an easier one to sell to the teenaged slacker mindset, even when that mindset occurs in people in their twenties. Honestly, it seems to me to require more thought. When I think of selflessness among young people, I think of people dying for a cause. When I think of selflessness in middle aged adults, I think of people working tirelessly.

I am afraid my ability to understand youth has faded as I have aged. Whether you despair or cajole them or trick them, they are not going to think the way you do. Whenever people are someplace involuntarily, you are going to have to give them a reason to set aside their resentment before you can expect much else from them.

[AKScott]

Not sure that selflessness can be taught. Am sure not everyone learns it.

One of my sons has taken on a second full time job so he can buy more J-pop CDs. He washes dishes in a resturaunt fulltime, and has a new rather menail retail sales position several evenings a week.

When his mother and I talked about it I was and still am of the opinion this might be the life experience he needs to bite the bullet and end up in college or a trade school so he can get a single higher paying job later.

I am sure that I can not show him he is wasting his time, it is something he is going to have to figure out for himself.

In all fairness, he doesn't have a dream or a passion to pursue. He wants more DVDs, and those cost money, so he knows he needs more money. Second job is the only option currently open to him that does not decrease his consumptive ability/ capacity short term.

Interesting qaundry. Thanks one and all for your responses.

[TheBrus]

You don't mention their parents. Tell us about them, please.

[CDNSushi]

I guess I will dissent a little. Your students do not lack in motivation. They are simply motivated in other ways and by other ideas than you. You can try to force them to accept your views or you can teach and lead them by using theirs.

Yes, I wondered if someone would bring that up. As my original post was sufficiently long and asked a different fundamental question, I figured I would address this only if it came up. But seeing as it has, I'll discuss it as briefly as I can, but as are many things in life, it's not quite so simple.

Let me first assure you that this concept is not lost on me. Even when I was a young, inexperienced teacher, I was a big fan of the teaching philosophies of John Amos Comenius. He is regarded by many as the first educational reformer in Europe, and lived and worked in the 1600s. One of his major tenets was that children learn language (specifically) but even extrapolating to a broader sense, through natural means. By "natural" he meant those activities that children would do on their own, without adults telling them what to do... Which was playing. When children are left to their own devices, they play. It is the most natural thing for them to do. In response, Comenius adapted his theory of teaching technique to incorporate very playful methods, like playing games, singing songs, and basically what Dr. James Asher at San Jose University popularized in the 1970s as the TPR (total physical response) theory of language acquisition -- something he also derived from the direct observation of the natural state of children and how they communicated.

In short, I do understand the relationship between motivation in learning founded in having an interest in the subject matter, as there is some very good evidence to show its value. It would be erroneous to say that I have not (or don't) incorporate what you speak of at some level. Having said that, however, there are some major limitations. We have had mixed degrees of success with directly catering to the students' interests, and there is enough experiential evidence is this particular circumstance to incorporate it only to a limited degree.

First, I have not yet observed a common enough passion among the students to merit a wholesale switch to a certain theme or topic. While I might have a group of students talking cars in one corner, no one else cares... So if I created a lesson with cars as the central theme, they might be engaged, but I will lose the rest of the class -- they will disengage.

Second, interest and passion do not equal engagement and motivation to learn. Interest and passion in a theme can actually be more counterproductive to the educational goal even more than disinterest. As an example, let's say that I DID manage to find a topic that an entire class can get behind and be passionate about, and in that class I incorporated certain language learning goals, tying them in with activities designed to practice those concepts. The students are SO focused on this really, cool, really neat theme, that they will completely abandon the English language-learning aspect, and simply get into a spirited discussion in Japanese, and it would take an act of Congress (or in this case, an act of the Diet) to get them to actually focus on the task at hand...

Next, I am often bound by metrics and objectives. Just like in the West, the pencil-pushers in City Hall and Board of Ed. insist on certain guidelines. This year they've mandated teaching to the TOEIC test, which, while not an unreasonable request, is 90% business English-related. The tools the students need to succeed on a TOEIC are not found in the things THEY would prefer to discuss, unfortunately.

Finally, you have to remember that teenagers are very fickle when it comes to their interests. Just because they are passionate about something doesn't mean they will be passionate about it around YOU. That is to say, if a couple of students are having a spirited discussion about J-league soccer, and I figure, "Okay... They like soccer. I can work with that!" and I create a J-league centered lesson custom tailored just for them, that doesn't mean they will extend their passion to the lesson. Because now that the crusty, "old" prof is involved, it's no longer fun.

Again, that's not to say that you don't have a point about catering to what the students like and what gets their gears going... I have done so, and continue to do so. As I said, I've seen mixed results, some quite good -- but it does have some very real limitations as well.

[CDNSushi]

There have been some really good reflections on this issue in these pages thus far. I'm glad that we have such a interesting variety of opinions. My previous response was really directed at one particular question, so herein I just wanted to mention a few of the other topics that came up.

TheBrus: I cannot really say much about the students' parents. As in any school, they are a mixed bunch. As college instructors we really have NO direct contact with them. The class advisors do (kinda like homeroom teachers in lower grades), but we ARE dealing with people in their late teens, going on 20, which is the age of majority in Japan. While parental roles in education certainly do deserve discussion and consideration, it's probably a more appropriate topic for K-12 than it is in post-secondary. While knowing more about the parents could reveal more info about the students' backgrounds, motivations, and problems, it wouldn't necessarily be effective use of time in devising solutions.

Father Bill, I apologize for pulling you out of retirement, but I was hoping you would comment, and I'm very glad you did. I will certainly look at the link you've posted... You're right that some things may be adaptable in another context.

Cygnus: I run a very fine balance in my classes, between permissiveness and strictness. One thing to remember, is that the Japanese concept of what is permissive and acceptable also varies greatly from what Westerners see as permissive and acceptable, so I must always be culturally aware and sensitive. Punishments in Japanese schools are also VASTLY different than those administered in the West. And in my 9+ years living and teaching here, I've found that it's highly ineffective to try and impose Western discipline here -- it's just not appropriate, nor is it effective. On the other hand, I will be adopting a few more control techniques that I hadn't had to utilize in the past, like assigned seating. At the beginning of the year, like in MOST colleges (I dare say), the prof walks in and tells everyone to "grab a seat." This is the case here too, especially given that the first class of the year (and the first week, for that matter) are extremely busy and we just don't have time to take 10 minutes out of a 50-minute lesson to take attendance and ensure that students are seated in a specific order.

In other ways, like with cellphones and games, and magazines in class and whatnot, I do try to minimize distractions and disruptions, but I also have to be careful to choose my battles. If a student sits in the back of the class reading a comic book and his buddy is reading over his shoulder, it's far more disruptive for me to stop the class and chastise them than it is to simply ignore the behavior.

ForresterModern: Great comments! The general philosophy here is to "teach to the willing" and try and ignore the unwilling. In a low-level college and a largely broken system, it IS a fairly successful strategy, up to a point. Even just a few years ago I used to wake up the sleepers in my class. Now, I just can't be bothered. It is when the unwilling start disrupting and ripping off the willing when this strategy starts to breaks down... What do you do with the unwilling then? Either you beat them into submission (figuratively, of course), or you try and engage them. I choose the latter, because I guess I'm just an optimist that I can still impart SOME knowledge into the unwilling, and I would have too guilty a conscience to simply shut out and exclude certain students -- that is EXACTLY what everyone else has done to them from elementary school onwards, and I just can't bring myself to be a part of the problem.

[Cowher]

I was the kid in class who you describe. I could care less what that unqualified dumb **** up in front was jabbering about. I was not dumb but I failed every test I took. When the teacher would yell at me for not doing my homework I would laugh and inform them "I don't DO homework". Teachers HATED me. I was the student that teachers loose sleep over.
Until one day a teacher named Mr. Hitov came into the classroom stood on a desk and started teaching us. It was freshman year of highschool and because of my poor grades I was in a math class that was teaching addition and hopefully by the end of the year we would get to multiplication. Mr. Hitov did enough to get one of my classmates to say who cares why would anyone want to learn about math that's why we have calculators.
He got off of the desk and asked the student to stand. He did. He smiled at him and said I will show you why you will care and I will show you why you care now. He challenged us he engaged us and told us that by the end of the year we would be doing trigonometry.

To make a long story short we all passed that class. I found that I needed to be in advanced classes. I thrived. I was bored befor and I looked at my teachers as being inferior to me. Once I was put in the advanced classes the teachers were smarter they made it fun I learned and I graduated with really good grades. I wasn't top of my class but I was being pushed. In one of my advanced classes I had a teacher take the approach of focus on the best forget the rest. I almost failed that class. I believe that most students don't have goals and are not challenged to meet those goals.

Ask the surgeon mask boy what he is going to do after school. What does he want out of life? Perhaps he needs more help than what you can offer but that's a step in the right direction.
You dont have to change the world to change a life.
You can't help every student but you will have some guy 14 years after he was in your class telling people how you changed his life.
They must have the desire and goals to reach for… You must have the same.