Could we chat about "brogues" a bit please?

[Schiehallion]

I am shocked as I have been into the well known shoe shop CLARKS and asked for black brogues. The shop assistant didn't know what they were or Oxfords let alone half and quarter brogues! Neither did the manager. Said that all the styles are out on display and they don't use such names but have a design trade name for clarity in ordering. I despair!

[Bugbear]

I am shocked as I have been into the well known shoe shop CLARKS and asked for black brogues. The shop assistant didn't know what they were or Oxfords let alone half and quarter brogues! Neither did the manager. Said that all the styles are out on display and they don't use such names but have a design trade name for clarity in ordering. I despair!

A while back, I bought a pare of black bluchers that were being called oxfords. The shoes are fine, and also exactly what I was looking for, but they aren't oxfords. That's why I brought up the tongue and laces in my first post.

[Peter Crowe]

There does seem to be some confusion about the names of traditional shoe styles. I was always taught that a Derby (pronounced Darby) was what Americans call a Blucher and the tongue was open to the vamp, and that an Oxford had the tongue closed from the vamp.

I believe that some brogues can be both Oxfords or Derbys but that full brogues are always Oxfords.

The shoe being called a quarter brogue, I thought was a basic toe cap oxford with brogue stitching instead of a line. My first pair of mens (as opposed to boys) shoes were in that style called Curzon by Church's of Northampton, England when I was 14 (1980/81).