Scots-Irish

[davidlpope]

Americans who are aware of their Ulster Scots ancestry refer to themselves as "Scotch-Irish", unless they are better informed than average.

As an aside, the mythology of this people group has reached almost heroic proportions here in the US. My theory is that this is a result of conflating "Scotch-Irish" culture with the "Frontier Culture" which developed in the 18th and 19th century during westward expansion. As a result, most Southerners tend to overemphasize their "Scotch-Irishness" and underemphasize their "Englishness", although the English were the largest ethnic group settling the South, even in the backcountry. Ironically, two of our biggest frontier heroes, Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, bore French Huguenot and Welsh/English surnames, respectively.

Follow this link to a book on this subject written by a great American, James Webb:
http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/pa...cotsirish.html

[Bugbear]

Americans who are aware of their Ulster Scots ancestry refer to themselves as "Scotch-Irish", unless they are better informed than average.

As an aside, the mythology of this people group has reached almost heroic proportions here in the US. My theory is that this is a result of conflating "Scotch-Irish" culture with the "Frontier Culture" which developed in the 18th and 19th century during westward expansion. As a result, most Southerners tend to overemphasize their "Scotch-Irishness" and underemphasize their "Englishness", although the English were the largest ethnic group settling the South, even in the backcountry. Ironically, two of our biggest frontier heroes, Davy Crockett and Daniel Boone, bore French Huguenot and Welsh/English surnames, respectively.

Follow this link to a book on this subject written by a great American, James Webb:
http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/pa...cotsirish.html

I keep meaning to read Webb's book, thanks for reminding us.

Unfortunately, my family had it's own "Scots-Irish" mythology; at some point, latching on to the term without knowing what it really meant. The same is true of the term "Dutch," as I am finding now. Short of drawing blood, and spending all of my money trying to find out what genetics I really have, I really just can't say anymore on a lot of the "ancestral roots," so have begun to look into cultural roots instead.

[Lyle1]

As a hyphenated-American (very, very hyphenated), I find the term "Ulster-Scots" to be most convenient. I have several families who came to the American colonies from Ulster in the early 1700's; I refer to those connections as Ulster-Scots. My paternal grandfather was born in Scotland, and his family came to the U.S. in the late 1800's when he was five years old. That grandfather married a women whose parents were born in Ireland (Oh, the horror of it all; I've heard stories.), thus starting a Scotch-Irish (as I heard it called when I was young) line. In the end, it does not really matter what these groups are called, but it is convenient to have separate and easily understood terms for the two groups. I have never had to explain what I meant by Ulster-Scots, and I usually refer to the others as "Scotch & Irish" to preclude the need for a followup explanation.

[Blackrose87]

As a hyphenated-American (very, very hyphenated), I find the term "Ulster-Scots" to be most convenient. I have several families who came to the American colonies from Ulster in the early 1700's; I refer to those connections as Ulster-Scots. My paternal grandfather was born in Scotland, and his family came to the U.S. in the late 1800's when he was five years old. That grandfather married a women whose parents were born in Ireland (Oh, the horror of it all; I've heard stories.), thus starting a Scotch-Irish (as I heard it called when I was young) line. In the end, it does not really matter what these groups are called, but it is convenient to have separate and easily understood terms for the two groups. I have never had to explain what I meant by Ulster-Scots, and I usually refer to the others as "Scotch & Irish" to preclude the need for a followup explanation.

I see, so a mixture of both Irish and Scottish ancestors?
But this is a very different situation to the Ulster-Scots in Ireland. They are descended from the Scottish who came over during the plantation in the 1600s, and have remained in Ulster since and in some circumstances mixing very little with the native Irish there before them.

[creagdhubh]

Very fascinating discussion, thanks gents.

Cheers,

[davidlpope]

I see, so a mixture of both Irish and Scottish ancestors?
But this is a very different situation to the Ulster-Scots in Ireland. They are descended from the Scottish who came over during the plantation in the 1600s, and have remained in Ulster since and in some circumstances mixing very little with the native Irish there before them.

No. Scots-Irish refers to a people group who are genetically "Scots", but who lived in Ireland for a period before emigrating to America. There was very little, if any, intermarriage with the native Irish among this group. They are the exact same group that you are referring to as "Ulster Scots", except they emigrated an additional time to the United States where they acquired the name "Scotch-Irish".

[Blackrose87]

No. Scots-Irish refers to a people group who are genetically "Scots", but who lived in Ireland for a period before emigrating to America. There is very little, if any, intermarriage with the native Irish among this group. They are the exact same group that you are referring to as "Ulster Scots", except they emigrated an additional time to the United States where they acquired the name "Scotch-Irish".

Although this is the proper historical definition of the term 'Scots-Irish', it seems that a few American members use to to refer to their heritage if they have both Irish and Scottish ancestors, even if from different sides of the family.

[McElmurry]

Although this is the proper historical definition of the term 'Scots-Irish', it seems that a few American members use to to refer to their heritage if they have both Irish and Scottish ancestors, even if from different sides of the family.

Yes, but I believe this is the exception that does not disprove the rule.

[celticpride]

my ancestor was from scotland and settled in a area around donegal ireland about 1650. in 1720 his grandson married a irish lady by the name of connor and had one son of scottish & irish descent then headed for america. that scottish/irish son was listed as one of the irish officers who fought at bunker hill (breed hill). while in america his offspring married into other irish families like carley, dorsey, tuttle and so on... now our family has strong scottish roots as the name is found in several places in scotland but also has left its mark in donegal and near dublin. after 9 generations we consider ourself americans, my question is would my family's heritage be scot/irish or irish?

[Blackrose87]

my ancestor was from scotland and settled in a area around donegal ireland about 1650. in 1720 his grandson married a irish lady by the name of connor and had one son of scottish & irish descent then headed for america. that scottish/irish son was listed as one of the irish officers who fought at bunker hill (breed hill). while in america his offspring married into other irish families like carley, dorsey, tuttle and so on... now our family has strong scottish roots as the name is found in several places in scotland but also has left its mark in donegal and near dublin. after 9 generations we consider ourself americans, my question is would my family's heritage be scot/irish or irish?

I would say you have Irish heritage.
The Ulster-Scots in Ireland don't consider themselves to be Scottish. They're Irish with Scottish ancestors. Your ancestor would have came over during at the plantation, and so subsequent children would have been Ulster-Scots.
So I suppose you could consider yourself to be of Ulster-Scots heritage or Irish, but I wouldn't say Scots.

I guess it depends on your own preference, and the influence te cultures have had on you. As I said before my father is an Ulster-Scot from mid-Antrim, and that where his family have been since the plantation. But I was brought up as Irish, and that's what I identify with.