Is this the end of special order cloth?

[M. A. C. Newsome]

The price adjustment occurred sometime last summer, if I am not mistaken. Nick posted a pretty good explanation at the time and did suggest that the setup fee adjustment was well over due!

It occurred on August 6, right after the mill reopened from their summer holiday. This is the first time that a loom set up fee has been a part of their pricing structure. I'm not saying it is not a fair fee to charge, but I did want to clarify about the timing of it. What we are discussing here is a recent change, not something that happened last summer.

[unixken]

I've been thinking about this overnight and am still economically confused. There is no set-up cost factored into a 'stock' tartan but from an economic perspective 'stock' items by their very nature an unrealised asset until sold. If I order a full piece in 'stock' colours (i.e. no special dyeing required) then the whole length is purchased immediately meaning an immediate full profit. So why should that be subject to a set-up cost? Consider also that in some circumstances where the order is for an historical sett/technique that I will have to do the calculation to fit the pattern to the loom (offset cloth is a prime example). Perhaps I should then counter charge for my expertise? An interesting conundrum!

Any tartan, in any color scheme, will require setup to thread the loom. That takes time, labor, and perhaps even some consumables (such as cleaning and maintenance materials that are used between runs.) Those are the incurred costs of setup, and they happen regardless. Amortize a 100 yard run of one tartan, versus a 10 yard "special order" of another tartan. Obviously the setup cost will be spread thinner over the former, than the latter.

In the case of something common and popular, you have retailers all over who will buy fabric in that tartan/color scheme, because it sells readily. Scarfs, blankets, upholstery, kilts, and fabric-by-the-yard. It might be something the mill produces every month, to satisfy orders for their customers. A commonly produced tartan may sit on a shelf at the mill, but not for long. And the setup costs, amortized over several hundred yards at a go, are low.

But a MacSchnozzle Family tartan, in Petrified Colors, if produced in advance of any demand, is gonna sit there unmoved, for a very long time. And when it does sell, it'll probably only sell enough to make a kilt or two. The same effort is needed to set up the mill for a 12 yard run of MacSchnozzle Petrified, as for the bigger runs.

If it costs $200 to set up a loom (regardless of the tartan or colors), and I run 100 yards, that setup cost is $2 per yard, in the cost of the fabric. That same $200 cost becomes $20 per yard, if I only sell 10 yards of the fabric. Those are the economies of scale.

[Paul Henry]

That was a problem with me, as it turns out, as the price increase was announced immediately after their two week holiday. As it happened, I took a few kilt orders during that mill holiday; I gave price quotes and collected payment based on the former prices, but will have to pay for the cloth myself with the new pricing. Sigh. It happens.

Last year when the same issue about the price rise happened I rang them up and suggested that a price rise before a notification was issued to their trade customers , but both unfair and not terribly professional or business like. I had a 16yard double width special about to be ordered, and to their credit they did let me have at more or less the earlier price after I had a lengthy discussion with them, so it might be worth an email explaining and they might see theri way to help..... it's worth a try!

[Paul Henry]

Any tartan, in any color scheme, will require setup to thread the loom. That takes time, labor, and perhaps even some consumables (such as cleaning and maintenance materials that are used between runs.) Those are the incurred costs of setup, and they happen regardless. Amortize a 100 yard run of one tartan, versus a 10 yard "special order" of another tartan. Obviously the setup cost will be spread thinner over the former, than the latter.

In the case of something common and popular, you have retailers all over who will buy fabric in that tartan/color scheme, because it sells readily. Scarfs, blankets, upholstery, kilts, and fabric-by-the-yard. It might be something the mill produces every month, to satisfy orders for their customers. A commonly produced tartan may sit on a shelf at the mill, but not for long. And the setup costs, amortized over several hundred yards at a go, are low.

But a MacSchnozzle Family tartan, in Petrified Colors, if produced in advance of any demand, is gonna sit there unmoved, for a very long time. And when it does sell, it'll probably only sell enough to make a kilt or two. The same effort is needed to set up the mill for a 12 yard run of MacSchnozzle Petrified, as for the bigger runs.

If it costs $200 to set up a loom (regardless of the tartan or colors), and I run 100 yards, that setup cost is $2 per yard, in the cost of the fabric. That same $200 cost becomes $20 per yard, if I only sell 10 yards of the fabric. Those are the economies of scale.

Just for your reference and in case you don't know, figheadair( Peter MacDonald) is very well versed in weaving techniques and doubtless the legistics of such as well, his website is a wonderful resource for all things tartan

[madmacs]

It occurred on August 6, right after the mill reopened from their summer holiday. This is the first time that a loom set up fee has been a part of their pricing structure. I'm not saying it is not a fair fee to charge, but I did want to clarify about the timing of it. What we are discussing here is a recent change, not something that happened last summer.

I think he was referring to my comment about the price increase after Nick took over...

[unixken]

Just for your reference and in case you don't know, figheadair( Peter MacDonald) is very well versed in weaving techniques and doubtless the legistics of such as well, his website is a wonderful resource for all things tartan

I'm certain he is. But statements like this...

If I order a full piece in 'stock' colours (i.e. no special dyeing required) then the whole length is purchased immediately meaning an immediate full profit. So why should that be subject to a set-up cost?

...ignore that it takes time and labor to thread the loom, perform any maintenance, etc. These, very much, are part of set up costs. To infer that whether the dies are custom blended or not is the only factor determining what is "set up", is misleading. In a case such as he cites, the set up costs have simply been amortized over so many yards as to effectively be pennies per yard... not worth segregating and listing as a setup charge.

[Spartan Tartan]

It occurred on August 6, right after the mill reopened from their summer holiday. This is the first time that a loom set up fee has been a part of their pricing structure. I'm not saying it is not a fair fee to charge, but I did want to clarify about the timing of it. What we are discussing here is a recent change, not something that happened last summer.

ahhh...thanks Matt. I didn't realize there was a setup fee AND general price increase. Well, that certainly adds even more to the future cost of a custom weave.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Spartan Tartan]

I think he was referring to my comment about the price increase after Nick took over...

I was, but also did not realize that another fee was recently added for set up. My confusion came from not being aware of TWO new costs. Of course, I am not a vendor and haven't ordered a new custom weave since either, so have been somewhat ignorant of this.

As a end customer, it would really come down to the ultimate cost when discussing with my future kilt maker what the overall costs are at that time.

I enjoy these conversations, though, none the less.

[figheadair]

I'm certain he is. But statements like this...

...ignore that it takes time and labor to thread the loom, perform any maintenance, etc. These, very much, are part of set up costs. To infer that whether the dies are custom blended or not is the only factor determining what is "set up", is misleading. In a case such as he cites, the set up costs have simply been amortized over so many yards as to effectively be pennies per yard... not worth segregating and listing as a setup charge.

But the point is, if I'm prepared to buy the whole bolt as a one off, and therefore there's nothing to hold in stock, why should there be a set up cost when there isn't if I buy a bolt of 'stock' material that will have involved exactly the same set up process?

[creagdhubh]

Well the DCD price increase doesn't seem to have nearly the effect on kilt pricing I'd thought it would. I guess an extra $50 to $60 is probably worth it if it keeps DCD afloat.

Thanks for the clarfication, Matt.

SM

I agree, Shaun. I certainly don't mind paying more.

Cheers,