Fringe or no fringe

[Melfice]

various fringe issues

I am not sure whether to laugh or cry. That was a horrible pun.
Well done!

[creagdhubh]

Totally agree. To my mind the kilt does not look finished without it.

Regards

Chas

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[Dale Seago]

Just curious, and in know way judgemental...are you all saying all your kilts contain fringed edges?

I have nine made-to-measure wool kilts: Four by USA Kilts (fringed) and five by Matt Newsome (unfringed). I can't really say I have a preference or feel that either looks wrong, and I happily swish both ways.





(Edited to add postscript: I should also mention that at no time when I've worn any of the Newsome kilts has any observer ever seemed to notice that there was no fringe.)

[lukeyrobertson]

There are some fringe benefits! I especially like the triple fringes on two of my kilts. The box-pleat doesn't have a fringe and I think it suits that style very nicely. I'm not sure a single fringe works as well. It's a bit too thin.

[The Wizard of BC]

I do not agree with the statement that military kilts have no fringe. I have seen military kilts with and without. I suspect it is up to the Regiment.

I can tell you that the current standard for the Canadian Scottish Regt. is Fringe for Officers and no fringe for Enlisted.

This standard has been in effect at least since just after WW!. Prior to that they wore Gordon instead of Stewart Hunting.

[azwildcat96]

I should also mention that at no time when I've worn any of the Newsome kilts has any observer ever seemed to notice that there was no fringe.

Interesting thread! I never gave it much thought. My first kilt (a tank) has fringe. My second kilt (a Newsome 5-yard box-pleat) does not have fringe. I've owned them for quite a while, wear them often, and in fact wore them both within the past 10 days, and I hadn't notice this difference until just now! Can't say that I have a preference either.

[seanachie]

Matt is not the only one who produces "fringe less" kilts. I have a few kilts from Keltoi (John Hart) and none have fringe, knife or box pleated. I think it is like many things on this board, that only members really pick up on it. I have worn my kilts plenty of times and places and never ever heard anyone say something about the fringe.

[TheOfficialBren]

With the full understanding that it serves no functional purpose, I still like it. It adds a bit of visual interest to the edge of the apron. It just looks 'right' to me.

+***

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I'd ask what style will you construct first? If box-pleated, I'd say no fringe. The MacDuff c.1800 from the Museum had no fringe. I'd like to see the Gordon Highlander c.1796, but I can't imagine it did either. If you are doing something more "contemporary" (relative, of course) then have at it.

The Gordon kilt being referred to is the oldest known surviving tailored kilt for which we have a date for. The aprons on that kilt were self-fringed. That is, there was no tailoring or shaping to the apron edge, it was just cut straight and fringed. So yes, it was fringed, but not in the same way modern kilts are fringed.

The MacDuff kilt you mention which is a civilian kilt from the same era also has no shaping to the outer apron edge -- it's just straight -- but in this case the edge was finished with a hem, and there is no fringe.

The oldest kilts I have seen that have any kind of shaping to the apron edge have no fringe. I try to base the stylistic features of my kilts as much as possible on early tailored kilts, so that's why most of the kilts I make have no fringe. However, I'm glad to make kilts with a fringe upon request.

Looking back through Bob Martin's All About Your Kilt, which has a catalog of many of the older kilts from museums and other collections that we know about, he doesn't really mention whether any of them have a fringe or not, with one or two exception -- for example, both the Gordon kilt previously mentioned as well as a Forbes kilt c. mid-19th century he mentions are self-fringed. In a few of the kilts he has photographed, one can easily see the apron is finished with no fringe, though in most of the photos the apron edge is not visible. In the photos where one can clearly see the outer apron, most have no fringe -- examples would include a MacLean of Duart kilt c. 1820, and a Fraser kilt, post 1829.

The Munro tartan kilt on display in the Scottish Tartans Museum, from the early 19th century, has no fringe.

The oldest kilt I am personally aware of in which the apron fringe was added as a separate peice, the way most modern kilt fringes are done (as opposed to simply being an extension of the cloth in the apron) is from the 79th NY Cameron regiment, c. 1860. Bob Martin has photos of one of these kilts, which were made by NY City dress makers, and you can see the pattern of the tartan in the fringe does not match the pattern of the tartan on the apron, which would only be the case if the kilt makers were sewing in a separate piece of tartan for the fringe and were not careful in matching the pattern.

Doing a quick scan through all the MacLeay portraits c. 1865, I note that the outer apron edge is clearly visible in many of these portraits, and there seems to be no preference for fringe or no fringe. I didn't do a formal count, but it seems that there is just as many of one as the other. Though I do note that on the kilts which do sport a fringe, it is a rather simple affair -- just a single fringe, not overly long, which is exactly the way I make my apron fringes when asked to do so. None of this double or triple fringe affair which is the norm on most modern kilts today.

As for my personal preference, I would say I have a slight bias towards no fringe, though I do own and wear kilts of both varieties. When I am making a kilt for myself, whether I add a fringe or not really just comes down to what mood I am in and a personal judgment of what I think would look good on that particular kilt. I will say that none of the four yard box pleated kilts I have made for myself have had a fringe. When making kilts for myself with higher yardages, whether box pleated or knife pleated, I've included a fringe maybe half the time.

[Jock Scot]

I have to confess that until I joined this website I had not noticed the fringe on the kilt and when the topic first arose here, that I am aware of, I had to go and look at my kilt to see if I had one. I had. So overtime I have studied the family's kilts, some of which must go back to at least the 1920's if not before, when I got the chance and I can report that they all have fringes.

I think there may be something in the "Officers =fringes" "Other Ranks= plain" thing, but in truth, when I had an opportunity to study this weighty matter in depth, too many years ago now, but when military kilts were far more numerous here, I was not aware of this detail!