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  1. #21
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    There could be a Norse influence also as the word Kirk means Church in Norwegian.
    [B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]Reverend Earl Trefor the Sublunary of Kesslington under Ox, Venerable Lord Trefor the Unhyphenated of Much Bottom, Sir Trefor the Corpulent of Leighton in the Bucket, Viscount Mcclef the Portable of Kirkby Overblow.

    Cymru, Yr Alban, Iwerddon, Cernyw, Ynys Manau a Lydaw am byth! Yng Nghiltiau Ynghyd!
    (Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Isle of Man and Brittany forever - united in the Kilts!)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]

  2. #22
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    Ah! Thanks for the heads up, Neloon.
    The Official [BREN]

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    In Scotland the local church is called 'the kirk' if it is the Presbyterian church and either belonging to the Church of Scotland or the Free Church of Scotland (sometimes referred to as the Wee Frees). The Anglican church in Scotland is known as the Episcopalian church because it is governed by the Episcopacy (Bishops) who, in turn, look to the sovereign as the head of their church to whom they pledge allegiance. Chapels are generally regarded as the meeting places of non-conformist religions such as Methodists, Baptists etc..
    However, in view of the OP's question, which related to the 1600s, we should note that in the 17th century neither the Free Church nor the Methodists existed, and Baptists were only beginning to emerge.

  4. #24
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    Well-spotted,McClef.

    What are some other denominations popular in Scotland?
    The Official [BREN]

  5. #25
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    The Anglican church in Scotland is known as the Episcopalian church because it is governed by the Episcopacy (Bishops) who, in turn, look to the sovereign as the head of their church to whom they pledge allegiance.
    Not quite correct. The Scottish Episcopal Church has a history that is quite distinct from the Church of England. It was implicated in the Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745 and was virtually banned subsequently. Scottish Episcopal clergy, including bishops, do not take an oath of allegiance to the crown or recognise the monarch as head of the church. This was why the first bishop of the Episcopal Church in the fledgling republic of the US was ordained by Scottish bishops. Only by the 19th Century were Scottish Episcopal clergy recognised in England. Although part of the world-wide Anglican communion of churches, clergy of the Scottish Episcopal church do not pledge any allegiance to the sovereign.
    It's coming yet for a' that,
    That Man to Man, the world o'er,
    Shall brothers be for a' that. - RB

  6. #26
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    Aye.

    Same in Canada. Our chief ecclesial officer is the Archbishop who is primate of Canada.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacRobert's Reply View Post
    Not quite correct. The Scottish Episcopal Church has a history that is quite distinct from the Church of England. It was implicated in the Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745 and was virtually banned subsequently. Scottish Episcopal clergy, including bishops, do not take an oath of allegiance to the crown or recognise the monarch as head of the church. This was why the first bishop of the Episcopal Church in the fledgling republic of the US was ordained by Scottish bishops. Only by the 19th Century were Scottish Episcopal clergy recognised in England. Although part of the world-wide Anglican communion of churches, clergy of the Scottish Episcopal church do not pledge any allegiance to the sovereign.
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Mostly retired Parish Priest & former Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair with solid Welsh and other heritage.

  7. #27
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    The opening line of James Inwick: Ploughman and Elder is, "Ye mind the year whan the auld Kirk was dung doun?"
    --dbh

    When given a choice, most people will choose.

  8. #28
    Phil is offline Membership Revoked for repeated rule violations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacRobert's Reply View Post
    Not quite correct. The Scottish Episcopal Church has a history that is quite distinct from the Church of England. It was implicated in the Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745 and was virtually banned subsequently. Scottish Episcopal clergy, including bishops, do not take an oath of allegiance to the crown or recognise the monarch as head of the church. This was why the first bishop of the Episcopal Church in the fledgling republic of the US was ordained by Scottish bishops. Only by the 19th Century were Scottish Episcopal clergy recognised in England. Although part of the world-wide Anglican communion of churches, clergy of the Scottish Episcopal church do not pledge any allegiance to the sovereign.
    Thanks for that clarification. As I am not a member I have no real knowledge of the Episcopal church. I do remember that the attempt to foist an episcopacy on Scotland didn't go down too well though.
    Last edited by Phil; 3rd February 13 at 07:33 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil View Post
    Thanks for that clarification. As I am not a member I have no real knowledge of the Episcopal church. I do remember that the attempt to foist an episcopacy on Scotland didn't go down too well though.
    "Foist?"
    Rev'd Father Bill White: Mostly retired Parish Priest & former Elementary Headmaster. Lover of God, dogs, most people, joy, tradition, humour & clarity. Legion Padre, theologian, teacher, philosopher, linguist, encourager of hearts & souls & a firm believer in dignity, decency, & duty. A proud Canadian Sinclair with solid Welsh and other heritage.

  10. #30
    Phil is offline Membership Revoked for repeated rule violations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father Bill View Post
    "Foist?"
    Maybe this might shed a little light on the subject of "Foisting" - http://www.covenanter.org.uk/WhoWere/

    "Simply stated, the Covenanters were those people in Scotland who signed the National Covenant in 1638. They signed this Covenant to confirm their opposition to the interference by the Stuart kings in the affairs of the Presbyterian Church of Scotland.
    The Stuart kings harboured the belief of the Divine Right of the Monarch. Not only did they believe that God wished them to be the infallible rulers of their kingdom - they also believed that they were the spiritual heads of the Church of Scotland. This latter belief could not be accepted by the Scots. No man, not even a king, could be spiritual head of their church. Only Jesus Christ could be spiritual head of a Christian church.
    This was the nub of the entire Covenanting struggle. The Scots were, and would have been, loyal to the Stuart dynasty but for that one sticking point, and from 1638, when the Covenant was signed, until the Glorious Revolution - when Prince William of Orange made a bloodless invasion of Great Britain in 1688 - a great deal of suffering, torture, imprisonment, transportation and executions would ensue.
    King Charles I had introduced the Book of Common Prayer to Scotland in 1637 to the fury and resentment of the populace. He declared that opposition to the new liturgy would be treason, and thus came about the Covenant.
    There followed a period of very severe repression. Ministers with Covenanting sympathies were "outed" from their churches by the authorities, and had to leave their parishes. Many continued to preach at "conventicles" in the open air or in barns and houses. This became an offence punishable by death. Citizens who did not attend their local churches (which were now in the charge of Episcopalian "curates") could be heavily fined, and such offenders were regarded as rebels, who could be questioned, even under torture. They could be asked to take various oaths, which not only declared loyalty to the king, but also to accept his as head of the church. Failure to take such an oath could result in summary execution by the muskets of the dragoons, who were scouring the districts looking for rebels.
    The persecutions became more frequent and cruel on the Restoration of Charles II in 1660. As time went on more and more ordinary folk became involved, and skirmishes and battles took place against Government troops. In 1678 the Government raised an army of 6,000 Highlanders, who had no love for the Presbyterian lowlanders. This army swept through the west and south of Scotland, looting and plundering. They remained for many years, quartering themselves on the already impoverished Covenanters"
    Last edited by Phil; 3rd February 13 at 07:54 AM.

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