"Dressing down a culture"

[Father Bill]

Nathan, I recognize, and am familiar with the rules of dress and mourning for Jews - my family are Jews (surprise for a priest - slightly weirder story than your average conversion too!) and I won't get into a discussion of religious observances or of my personal or family history here, but generally speaking there's always a way to find appropriate and respectful expressions of respect for both faith and society.

As stated earlier, my concern is not with the headwear itself, so much as that it be done, as with all clothing, appropriately, neatly, cleanly... etc. There is no acceptable excuse for a dirty baseball hat or dirty jeans in a family restaurant. On a very simple basis, a fedora is infinitely more dressy than a baseball cap if it isn't one that's chosen for its style to be an "in-your-face" snub to social norms.

Years ago when I was a classroom teacher, my grade 4 kids asked why I always wore a suit and tie while the other men on staff did not. I told them it was because they treated me better. They were puzzled and surprised at that, but one perceptive youngster asked if it would work for them if they dressed better too. I replied that I didn't know for sure, but I rather thought it might. They asked how they should dress if they wanted to try it. I think my answer is both useful here and related to the topic at hand, as was the result.

I told them that I would never suggest a rule on clothing, but that even if they wanted to try it, it would be silly for nine year old boys to wear suits or ties, boys and girls could wear shirts with collars rather than crew necks, although crew necks are acceptable for girls in some outfits. Button-up is considered a notch dressier than pullover. Shirts or tops should never have numbers or pictures on them, although again there was leeway for girls to wear florals or geometrics etc. (I gave the class greater detail than I'm relating here) and boys could certainly wear subtle monograms. They were surprised that khakis or flannels were considered "nicer" than jeans, but I explained that if they chose jeans, they should be in good repair and clean. Shoes of leather were considered dressier than sneakers, but sneakers that had been washed and brushed out were quite nice. No clothing should ever have pictures of anything that glorified anything frowned on by the code of conduct or any part of society to avoid judgements, and hoodies, if worn should never have the hood up except outdoors when chilly, and hats were never to be worn indoors except for those of religious or uniform meaning, which I explained. Girls could wear their choice of nice slacks, skirts, shorts, sundresses... or in all cases, the similar equivalents for boys or girls.

After several questions for clarification, the kids (quite excited and interested in the concept) decided independently that they would try it the next day. I reminded them that this was completely voluntary and their idea, not mine, but they were unanimous that it would be fun.

Next day, they looked subtly but significantly better. I complimented them at once, but by noon, they had received and shared numerous compliments from other unknowing staff members... on their behaviour, not their dress! They had pulled it off, and individually chose independently of the experiment, to dress that way for the forseeable future. I believe (my own opinion) that their deportment also improved - people behave according to the way they are perceived, including self-perception.

After a couple of weeks, children in other classes asked my kids why they were better treated than the rest of the school. They said it was because they dressed the part, and in answer to the other children, explained the "rules." Soon the whole school was dressing "up a notch." Note that nobody was wearing tuxedos, but interestingly, the other men on staff started wearing ties and/or jackets. The key here is "up a notch," not suits and ties, just... "up a notch."

Later on, I checked the records. There were actually less detentions and suspensions from that date, and perhaps unrelatedly, our school's scores rose significantly that year. The school continued that way long after I had left.

Do I believe in dressing the part? Absolutely. I'm a priest now. I usually wear a black shirt & clerical collar when I'm in public because it says who and what I am. Can I attribute any of what happened in that school to the dress of the children? Not directly, but the anecdote speaks for itself. When I dress as a priest, I'm treated as a priest. It's amazing (and somehow embarassing) how often doors are held for me and how many smiles are returned my way. I often hear "Good morning Father." People respect the visible signs that they can see. Sometimes I wear jeans with my shirt and collar if I'm riding my motorbike... but they're clean black jeans, not blue. Same response and some interesting grins at the leathers and helmet.

Here endeth the sermon!

I see no reason ever for people to devalue themselves by proclaiming publicly that they're dirty, uncaring folks.

[tulloch]

Very interesting video Dutchy. Whether you live in a crude house in Borneo or an ice house in Northern Canada you can take pride in how you look. I think that we, in this amalgam we call 'Western' society, have lost our dignity and our pride. We are at the mercy of economic forces, (Walmart and the like, most families require both parents working, we're huustling just to keep our heads above water), and our technological explosion, (most people are connected in multiple ways all the time), and the result is that we've lost sight of who we are, who we can be and how we are seen.

We, of this forum, have a greater sense of how we look. We tend to turn heads where we go. We have pride in our appearance. Whether casual or formal one can take care to look good while still being comfortable and appropriate to the occasion. Others are be influenced by this. They will come around.

[CMcG]

...People respect the visible signs that they can see.

...

I see no reason ever for people to devalue themselves by proclaiming publicly that they're dirty, uncaring folks.

There are plenty of reasons why people would choose their clothing as signs that others wouldn't respect. In fact, some of those reasons might be precisely to thumb the nose at social conventions! Other reasons might include not only rebellion, non-conformity, and counter-culture, but also comfort, thrift, or fashion.

Ironically, there are many instances of sub-cultures which value attire that signifies adherence to non-mainstream ways of being in the world, but which still result in conformity, albeit to a different standard. I've made my way through punk, skater, rave, metal, bohemian, student, and artist social circles where being dressed up a notch, too clean, well-kempt, etc would be detrimental to one's cultural capital. It's not to say that people in those scenes didn't pay attention to their attire, but rather that they had a different approach.

In the academic world I find myself in these days, however, dressing sharp is the smart thing to do ith:

[herminator]

See here!

Shalom
Hermann

[moggi1964]

Here's a challenging image for you. This chap would have taken some time to get his hair to be the way it looks and his boots are clearly shined yet I wonder how many here would think he dressed slovenly? I imagine he took great pride in how he looked. Times change and maybe we will return to a time when the Beatles look is de rigeur and many will dress like that. This was London c1995 by the way.



image courtesy of Jean-Luc Balfroid via Stoo @51 Days in a Kilt

[artificer]

While we definitely dress more casually than most folks did at the turn of the last century, there is much beyond a simple "people don't respect themselves anymore" that should be taken into account.

Today we:

work longer hours, nights, and weekends. If you were comfortably middle class in 1900 you most likely didn't. Most families at this point have BOTH parents working out of the home. Kids have MUCH more to do school-wise (both extracurricular activities and homework wise).

Nearly nobody has domestic staff anymore, either, which wasn't the case up until WWI when most middle class families employed one to three people in their homes.

All of this adds up to less time for everything- Less time for an ACTUAL dinner, much less a formal dinner. Less time for laundry/pressing/etc so clothes that are easy to care for are a plus, and nobody wants to change clothes 3 times a day anymore- who wants to do all that bloody laundry?

Additionally, changes in mechanical services like Central Heating have made 4 layers of clothing WaaaaaaaY too warm to wear at the office/home. Covered and heated automobiles have done the same for traveling, we don't NEED heavy car coats anymore.

Speaking of cars, that's what killed off the hat here in the US. Lower 50's and 60's roof lines.


Don't get me wrong, the whole Jim-Jams out in public has always been a bit of a puzzler for me, but it's important to compare apples to apples.

Of course these days I'm just lucky to get showered and out of my shop clothes before bed

ith:

[Alan H]

The world changes, guys. Get used to it.

or, as an alternative, sit on X Marks the Scot and complain about how everything has gone to pot and it was all just SO much better when you were a young lad. Remember, of course, that your parents and grandparents and great grandparents did the same thing.

[creagdhubh]

Well said, Scott!

[moggi1964]

The world changes, guys. Get used to it.

or, as an alternative, sit on X Marks the Scot and complain about how everything has gone to pot and it was all just SO much better when you were a young lad. Remember, of course, that your parents and grandparents and great grandparents did the same thing.

Well of course, the music WAS much better back when I was a lad but apart from that I totally agree

[JohntheBiker]

The world changes, guys. Get used to it.

or, as an alternative, sit on X Marks the Scot and complain about how everything has gone to pot and it was all just SO much better when you were a young lad. Remember, of course, that your parents and grandparents and great grandparents did the same thing.

Getting used to it is not a problem. Accepting that it represents progress is a different matter.

Often dressing appropriately for a given function or activity is about self-respect and good manners. I would argue that there are more folks today that don't have much of either. Either they haven't been taught or they don't care.

At work, I dress like a professional. When I'm on the Harley, I look like a biker. Highland formal is formal. At home it is mostly jeans and a T-shirt. The kit is always clean and cared for and I don't wear a hat indoors. Self-respect and good manners.