what work needs me to do

[opositive]

i wore a kilt more often at work whenever there were casual [me-kilt] fridays, which were usually fundraisers. BUT then the Boss more recently put out a dress code memo because too many people were too casual whether friday or not. so, after making my immediate supervisor did not mind-and prompting from fellow minions, i now only wear a kilt a couple of times a year on scottish or irish special occasions.

[TheOfficialBren]

Use common sense. Period. It is unfortunate but we're all cogs in the soylent green machine.

[Father Bill]

I can't agree; I'm glad to be a cog. It puts supper on the table. And yes, I would work with, for, or supervising Tobus. He gets it.

[Aussie_Don]

Having read the thread, the phrase springs to mind, "Career limiting move".

Work dress codes don't have to be sensible -- in fact they often aren't. When
I did Windows desktop support -- think opening dusty PC cases, crawling on
the floor under desks to replace cables, etc. I was expected to turn up in a
suit, or at least a good pair of trousers, a jacket, and tie because that made
me look "professional". (Wrecked a pair of trousers from an expensive suit
on that job -- )

Later, I worked as a system administrator on Unix systems, arguably a much
more highly specialised and professional technical skill-set. There the dress
expectation was, "Wear what you want, as long as it is decent." I was sent
to Panama to troubleshoot a customer problem -- dress code there was good
shorts, open necked short sleeve shirt - well it was the tropics.

OK, I didn't actually see many customers in case 2 except on the road trip.
But in case 1 the customers were all internal so it shouldn't have been that
critical. I even lectured at a university in tee shirts (IT companies) and jeans
most days. If I'd had a kilt, I might have considered it there.

But the real point is that, if they're paying, they have a right to dictate a
dress code as long as it is not unsafe or demeaning.

Sucks, but that's the reality.


-Don

[O'Callaghan]

I can't agree; I'm glad to be a cog. It puts supper on the table. And yes, I would work with, for, or supervising Tobus. He gets it.

It's not Tobus' advice I take issue with, merely his attitude. I have followed every dress code I have been given, and don't much care about changing them. However, I am 101% sure in my own mind that the various dress codes make no difference to the quality of the work performed. My personal opinion is I would not like to work for someone who thinks it matters. I find that opinion a little strange, and that's the polite version. However, as I have no desire to ever move to Texas ...

ETA: Dress codes aside, I have very long hair. IMHO, employers have no right to control aspects of appearance that affect employees outside work. If they did object I assume they would never hire me to begin with. It would take many years to grow back, which contrasts strongly with a kilt or any other clothing, which takes a few minutes to take off or to put back on. Not the same thing atall. Within reason (clown suit with red nose perhaps?) I will wear whatever an employer dictates.

[Stilletto_Rebel]

I wear kilts to work on Fridays. (I'm sitting in work in my Manx Blue as I type this!). I would say to you to listen to your gut on how you think your Manager and HR would accept this. Unfortunately, Tobus is correct in that if you are seen as anything but a team player/corporate drone you will be a marked man. The workplace is not a democracy and freedom of expression or speech is not an automatic right. Sound out your Manager, but if they say no I recommend you forget about it.

When I was interviewing for my current employer they made a thing about portraying themselves as a 'progressive' organisation, so I asked if they'd be fine with kilts in the office - and they said yes. The HR lady beamed me a huge grin. It's gotten to a point where a number of my clients have learnt about the kilt and I have to email them a photo of what I'm wearing! (A jealous(?) colleague calls them my Kilt B!tches). However, I'm not allowed to dye my hair (though I do on occasion), and you won't find any employees with visible tattoos...

[Connaughton]

Quite possibly here is your bottom line.
You work for a Corporation - so it is not about you.
So, you dress properly. Match you leathers, keep your shirt buttoned up and make sure it is clean and pressed. You wear proper trousers and shoes and a blazer/sport coat. You might consider your tie and socks as your personal canvas. And I don't mean that you have to spend a fortune.
And when you get home - it is going to be about your family. So it is still not about you.

During the course of any day I work with senior management, middle management and the man on the factory floor who makes the widgets. I never know who I will be in touch with and who will be at the Corporate offices, and/or from which international site. I will be perceived as a respected coworker and colleague and not "Oh, he's just the graphic designer". I will be dressed properly.

I find that my colleagues are much more likely to give me what I want and what I need to do my job.
AS a bonus, I also find that I get brought into the really interesting parts of the corporation. Which can be really fun.
I get paid well and can afford to have a decent enough home and put some money away.
I wear a kilt when the time is right to wear a kilt. And I enjoy those days because it is about me.

I am also thinking that those, on this message board as a small example, who do wear a kilt everyday, or potentially can do so, are folks who probably created a business where that works. Steve, Rocky and Matt are three who come to mind immediately and more power to each of them. But each created that economy to be able do that. If you want to be in the business of wearing a kilt each day by all means create that economy for yourself. But a corporation is probably not that place. The original poster works in a corporate environment where the kilt does not work. Does not matter if others come to work in flipflops and t-shirts. The kilt does not work-period and that basically ends it.

The only ones I know who don't judge based on looks is a young women on my block who has Downs Syndrome, my dogs and the others dogs in my neighborhood. And we love and protect them all for their abilities to cut right through to the core of it. Who are you and are you good and decent? Other than that, we all judge and get judged based on what we look like and the perception of what we should look like. In corporate America one looks corporate and acts like you've been there before. Ability counts but perception is reality.


Best of luck to all of us.
Do the dumb things that you gotta do and you might get the dumb things that you really want.

Connaughton

[Tobus]

It's not Tobus' advice I take issue with, merely his attitude. I have followed every dress code I have been given, and don't much care about changing them. However, I am 101% sure in my own mind that the various dress codes make no difference to the quality of the work performed. My personal opinion is I would not like to work for someone who thinks it matters. I find that opinion a little strange, and that's the polite version. However, as I have no desire to ever move to Texas ...

ETA: Dress codes aside, I have very long hair. IMHO, employers have no right to control aspects of appearance that affect employees outside work. If they did object I assume they would never hire me to begin with. It would take many years to grow back, which contrasts strongly with a kilt or any other clothing, which takes a few minutes to take off or to put back on. Not the same thing atall. Within reason (clown suit with red nose perhaps?) I will wear whatever an employer dictates.

Well, we all come from different perspectives and mindsets, and that's what makes the world an interesting place. I don't know your history or experience in the workplace, nor what kind of work you do, but surely you must acknowledge that certain professions demand a minimum standard for employees? Not only in how they work, but in how they act and look. You wouldn't hire an attorney to represent you in a multi-million dollar lawsuit if he shows up to court wearing flip-flops, muscle shirt, and sporting neck tattoos, would you? I know I wouldn't. I would expect my attorney to look and act like a dignified professional. I daresay you might also question his ability as an attorney if he can't dress the part.

I actually find it strange that you consider my attitude to be strange. Exuding a professional image is the traditional workplace expectation, and has been for many years in the professional world. Having the workplace be a free-for-all medley of casual individualist expression is a relatively new experiment amongst "progressive" companies. But in the world of corporate business, professional expectations remain fairly traditional. This isn't exactly a new thing.

Dress code really depends on the job and the atmosphere of the work environment. I'm not stating that dressing down automatically makes someone a poor worker, or that dressing up automatically makes them a good worker. Not at all. But dressing professionally, aside from maintaining the image that clients expect, is part of an overall strategy to keep employees in a professional mode when they are at the office. It goes right along with not allowing them to play loud music while they're working, or use profanity, or promote their own brand of politics. This simply isn't the place for that. If an employee comes to work expecting it to be his outlet for personal expression, then there is a greater chance that he is not really focused on the work he's being paid to do, and likely isn't representing the company's image. It depends on the company and the type of work, of course. Each employer has the right to decide how he wants his business to operate, and employees have the choice to abide by it or go somewhere else.

If you work in the type of field where casual dress and long hair and casual dress doesn't matter, then great! Enjoy it. But there are those of us who work in more traditional environments and who understand (and support) the need to keep the workplace professional and distinctly separate from personal stuff. And yes, I've turned down applicants who showed up for the interview looking like slouches. Personal presentation does matter in the business world. Like it or not, people do judge books by their covers. First impressions are important, and all that jazz.

And actually, the people who work under me are quite content. I think that they, like me, take pride in being professionals and upholding a higher standard. That goes a long way in how they perform. Again, it's a psychological thing.

But back to the point, even though we like kilts and consider them acceptable attire, we must realise that not everyone does (especially here in the US). To many people, it is considered 'fringe' attire, and not at all suitable for the workplace. Heck, even in Scotland there are companies who would not take kindly to an employee wanting to flaunt his heritage by wearing a kilt to work. They may respect his lineage and family tradition, but that doesn't mean they want it in the workplace.

[Llama]

I disagreed with Tobus earlier in this thread, but he was talking specifically of the OP and his personal experience, where I was (admittedly going a little off-topic) and speaking in broader strokes. That's why I specified "your mileage may vary."

I would also not work for Tobus, but I'm a 3D animator. He probably wouldn't work for me either! Personal expression is very important to me, but it might not be for everyone. I saw my dad come home from a steel mill every day and hate every minute of it, which is a large reason I chose to pursue an education and career in art. I think we all agree that you shouldn't show up to work looking like you've just woken up from a nap. Though, I find showing some personal expression has helped me in my career - I am often remembered by upper management when my peers are forgotten because I stand out in a crowd. I become a marked man, but I use that to my advantage.

This may not be true where you work and Tobus is absolutely correct in that a kilt is considered fringe attire. If your employer gives you a hard NO, there's not much that you can or really should do except to find a job that fits you better - and I really feel that people should find a job that fits them.

[moggi1964]

I approached the client I work for about wearing the kilt to work.

I got a call from HR and we had a discussion about the reasons I would want to wear it (heritage). I was honest that back home in Scotland most people tend not to wear the kilt on a daily basis and that for me it was a link to both my heritage and my birthplace/place I was raised.

I explained that it would form a part of my wardrobe, likely being worn once or twice a week on no particular days (we don't have a dress-down day). I made it clear that if they decided that it did not fit with the dress code then I would simply stick with what I usually wear, trousers and a collared shirt. I also made sure she knew that i would wear the appropriate undergarment at all times and that I did not believe that the kilt would in any way effect my job performance.

I offered to show or send a picture of how the attire would look to show how it would be smart, almost formal by comparison to my current wear but she said that wasn't necessary. I wear a brogue (safety shoe actually), hose (with flashes with my wool kilt; without with my PV), a leather day sporran, sometimes a belt too and a collared shirt.

After a short consideration she said I was fine to wear the kilt.

Now this client is ranked in the top 175 of the Fortune 500 (and was Top 50 before a major reorganisation and separation of operations) and they are known as a very 'inclusive' company as far as 'Rights' go. That, I am, sure helped in the decision making process.

My own manager was supportive but mostly stayed out of it as he trusted I could handle the negotiation/discussion myself.

I don't have an opinion on what the OP should do but wanted to share how I approached it with my client and perhaps he will find something in there that is helpful.

I agree, llama, we should all find a job that fits who we are and perhaps the OP will choose to move on in time if he feels his current employer isn't the right one for him.

Best of luck to him.