misuse of "decimated"

[DWFII]

This distinction is one that mystifies me at times. I have no problem self-identifying as ignorant; there are countless areas of knowledge of which I am ignorant, but willing and eager to learn. Yet some folk who do not understand the definition of ignorance take great offense at the label.

At which point one begins to wonder about "willful ignorance."

Which, all other things being equal, might be the definition of "stupidity."

[Tarheel]

This tread is causing my hindsight to gain acuity, and my foresight requiring education.

[kiltedtom]

OC Richard,

As a historian, I too cringe when I hear certain terms used incorrectly today. As you pointed out, "decimate" means to reduce by one-tenth. This a punishment sometimes used by Roman victors. they lined up a group and executed every tenth person. Not a good day to forget how to count.) It was meant to instill fear and obedience. (In fact, the Romans some times used it for their own soldiers to keep them in line.) Two other words that make me a little crazier than normal (of course, my students claim that they have now counted seventeen separate personalities. So however normal that is) are using the terms "dictator" and "tyrant" to describe anyone we just happen not to like.

Dictator was a constitutional office used in emergencies during the Roman Republic. Originally, the term of office was limited to usually six months at a time. Not until Lucius Cornelius Sulla (end of the second - century BCE), was that office extended indefinitely (though he did abdicate prior to his own death. And you do not want to know how he croaked.) In fact some of the early dictators were considered role models for later Romans. One example is Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (fifth-century BCE), hence, the Society of the Cincinnati and Cincinnati, Ohio.

Tyrant, originally meant only "king." The earliest known was a guy by the name of Gyges of Lydia (in modern Turkey) in the late eighth-century BCE. While he got his power through force, he was considered a hero to the population. His example encouraged later Greeks (mid sixth century BCE) to do the same. These tyrants brought prosperity and security to a number of the city states and, thus, were again seen by the common people as heroes. Not until Plato's Republic did the term start becoming a negative title.

We, particularly, from the USA, like to condemn anything that we do not understand or does not sound like democracy. Historically speaking, democracy has never been successful long. Neither in Athens (which was not really a democracy as we define it) nor the first French Republic. Both deteriorated into chaos. Actually, Sparta, which we like to condemn, was more of a true democracy than Athens. In Athens, not all citizens could vote or hold office, not even under Pericles (fifth-century BCE), and the citizens numbered only about 40,000 individuals in a population close to 250,000 (estimated). Sparta's citizens (adult male soldiers) voted on all laws. Fewer in number, perhaps, but still the definition of a true democracy. And heaven forbid that we say anything positive about the Spartans. (Other than they make a great story for Hollywood.) So instead of understanding, we make nasty comments.

My last for the day is this. While you can have any number of better items, you can have only one best item of that sort. At least according to the English grammar books. But heck, they keep changing those rules too.

Hope you all have a happy, happy, wonderfully safe New Year's Eve and a great year to follow.

Tom

[ForresterModern]

Here is a little Hillbilly Grammar for the rabble:

Y'all (a contraction of You all) is considered singular (replaces the singular "you") in most southern regions of the US. In more northern regions that may use the term it is typically considered a pleural form and pertain to several people in a common grouping.

All y'all (same contraction preceded by a redundancy) is the southern pleural of Y'all.


And while many eastern european languages thought they had the monopoly on words or names with more syllables than vowels (example, the name Krzrmarczk from a friend has three syllables--kurz marz' ik--- but only the one vowel, the middle "a"-----without even cheating and using a y), it is another southern distinction that the typically one vowel one syllable word for "excrement" (as in bull----, horse----, no----, Oh----, and deep----) in many places and under special circumstances is pronounced with three syllables in actual usage, designed I believe to emphasize incredulity---'Well sheeee yeee yit" (emphasis on the first two syllables only slightly more than the last). Sometimes makes you wish the southern states secessions had not been challenged (our civil war).

[figheadair]

I'm with you on this one Richard. I've lost count of the number of Staff Rides I've been on where the DS described one side or other as being "totally decimated". Asking what the problem was, because the force comander still had 90% of his troops, was always greeted with incomprehension.

More correctly, I've read that during the defence (spelt correctly 😂) of Stalingrad that the NKVD practised decimation (shot every tenth defender) to encourage the remainder to fight and not surrender.

A pal of mine was a cadet at RMA Sandhurst in 1977 when the staff invoked decimation to issue the Queen's Silver Jubiee Medal - there were a limited number so the whole course was lined up and the medal given to every tenth cadet.

For a little light hearted bed-time reading try Bill Bryson's Dictionary of Troublesome Words. It's great fun.

[slothead]

Here is a little Hillbilly Grammar for the rabble:

Y'all (a contraction of You all) is considered singular (replaces the singular "you") in most southern regions of the US. In more northern regions that may use the term it is typically considered a pleural form and pertain to several people in a common grouping.

All y'all (same contraction preceded by a redundancy) is the southern pleural of Y'all.

Do y'all spell 'plural' differently too?

[AFS1970]

While reading this thread, the phone rang and I had to talk to someone relaying about an event that was going on in front of the "libary".

I found that to be inconceivable!

As a semi-related aside to this, for those that have to deal with codes and signals that are often misused, the same sort of changes occur over time. Another of my favorites are the abbreviations that people double the end of because they ignore what it really stands for. Like VIN number or ATM machine.

[James Hood]

Doubling at the end is dreadfully common with the common chemical characteristics / hazard communications documents;

"MSDS Sheet" and SDS Sheet.," for Material Safety Data Sheet and Safety Data Sheet.

"Southern" (much of the married-into family) has some absolutely precious compound words:

"zatcho"

and

"idinit"

Using them in a sentence: "Zatcho dawg, idinit?"

[Wareyin]

Here is a little Hillbilly Grammar for the rabble:

Y'all (a contraction of You all) is considered singular (replaces the singular "you") in most southern regions of the US. In more northern regions that may use the term it is typically considered a pleural form and pertain to several people in a common grouping.

All y'all (same contraction preceded by a redundancy) is the southern pleural of Y'all.

Interesting, as I have lived in more than one southern state and never heard y'all used as a singular.

ETA: Actually, I have heard y'all used in singular form, but only in television or film format, by someone emulating a southern accent. Never in real, life, however.

[Blupiper]

Doubling at the end is dreadfully common with the common chemical characteristics / hazard communications documents;

"MSDS Sheet" and SDS Sheet.," for Material Safety Data Sheet and Safety Data Sheet.

"Southern" (much of the married-into family) has some absolutely precious compound words:

"zatcho"

and

"idinit"

Using them in a sentence: "Zatcho dawg, idinit?"

Big thumbs up for MSDS sheet (now the SDS sheet.) I use them a bunch at my job and cringe when the extra 'sheet' is added. Directly from the Dept. of Redundancy Dept. My peeves in misuse (see: decimate) are the complete misuse of the adjectives awesome and decadent. Oh, well, time to quit being the crotchety old guy. Wutcho gonna do?

JMB