Highland Morning Dress Equivalent

[Jock Scot]

————-Whether they would be cringeing is, of course, a matter of opinion, something that, in my experience, most highlanders usually keep to themselves.

You are quite correct. In normal life highlanders are renowned for keeping opinions to themselves. However, a kilt website such as this, encourages people to volunteer points of views, based on their experience so that others can learn and adapt if they wish.

[Karl R]

The guys at USA Kilts have a video (link here) where they brainstorm about some alternatives to a Jabot with a Montrose jacket. It's answering a related question, not an identical one.

[FossilHunter]

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[thescot]

I would be interested in any documented substantiation of the use of a black Montrose with silver buttons for use as a morning coat equivalent. It just wouldn't occur to me to wear it for such.

But then,, what do I know? Not much

And, of course, there is no law against a tuxedo at a morning wedding--Lord knows you see that nowadays from the younger set who've never heard of "after six" and such, and who dress abominably anyway--but it just really is't done, traditionally at least.

[Macman]

I have no documentation and also my montrose is green velvet. In my younger days (the 1960s) any hired highland dress consisted of a montrose with jabot and diced or tartan hose with a fly plaid and buckle brogues and this was, at the time, the outfit for a Scottish daytime wedding. Since then economics have come to bear and latterly hire outfits went down market to a Prince Charlie with white hose and ghillie brogues and, of course, this website has many expressions of opinion on this.
What perplexes me is that what I know, from personal experience going back 50 or more years, is now regarded as something beyond the pale. This is not something that I have read in books or seen in catalogues but something I have experienced in real life over the years.

Steve, this is a comment from a Canadian who has worn the kilt from the early seventies, and who has always tried to "get it right" in wearing highland dress. My main source was "Tartans and Highland Dress" by MacKinnon of Dunakin. My understanding was that the dress as you've described it above (Montrose doublet, jabot, buckled shoes, etc.) was not worn during the day. I don't dispute your experience and knowledge, especially given your location and history, but just giving you my point of view.

[OC Richard]

About Highland Morning Dress, the 1914 book The Kilt: A Manual Of Scottish National Dress has this to say:

"Morning Dress is a very simple affair and consists of Balmoral cap, tweed jacket and vest, with plain horn buttons...

The sporran should be of plain leather, or badger, but in any case should be of the small round pattern.

Stockings should be of ordinary hose material and should not be of tartan.

Footwear should consist of thick soled brogues with gaiters to match the stockings...

The only weapon worn with Morning Dress is the Skean Dhu.

Collar and tie should be of the ordinary pattern, the bow tie being most becoming for this style of dress."

Essentially the author is advocating ordinary Day/Outdoor Dress for Morning Dress. (The wearing of gaiters and bow ties with Day Dress had become unfashionable by around 1930.)

An article in 1930 doesn't address Morning Dress by name, but speaking of weddings advocates full Evening Dress, but goes on to say

"An alternative permissible, especially when the wedding is in the country, is that a jacket of the ordinary day shape (Argyll) should be worn, but that this be made of dark grey or black material."

They say that this dress is also "correct" for wedding guests.

This seems on all fours with the outfit shown by McMurdo earlier in the thread.

For sure this thread has got derailed onto a discussion of Evening Dress. However this may be the case I just had a few observations

1) here in the USA the traditional British distinctions of various orders of men's dress don't seem to be much in evidence. I have heard about exceptions such as the Charleston South Carolina area and other places where Old Money people still maintain formal events with traditional dress codes. Here in the West such things don't really exist AFAIK.

2) throughout the 19th century the near-universal Highland jacket was the "doublet" which has evolved into the modern "regulation doublet". The only other 19th century Highland jacket style which has survived into modern times is the Argyll. Both the Doublet and Argyll were worn in Evening Dress in the 19th century and well into the 20th.

3) all our other Highland Evening jackets were creations of the early 20th century, namely the Prince Charlie Coatee, the Montrose doublet, the Kenmore doublet, and the Sheriffmuir doublet. At the time of their appearance and throughout the 1920s and 1930s these Evening jackets were common not only in black but also in green and blue. In other words there was no notion of "black equals Evening".

4) lace jabots were another thing that appeared in the early 20th century, and they could be worn with all Highland Evening Dress jackets, the Prince Charlie coatee and the Argyll as well as the Montrose, Kenmore, and Sheriffmuir.

5) also beginning in the early 20th century Highland "day" or "outdoor" dress was an entirely different costume having a unique kilt, shoe, hose, sporran, jacket, shirt, and tie. (Early 20th century sources speak to the wearing fine Saxony kilts in the Evening and heavy coarse kilts in the Day.)

6) in the main the traditional Highland Dress as it evolved in the early 20th century hasn't appreciably changed. Nowadays you do sometimes see things that cross the traditional boundaries like tweed Prince Charlies, tweed Montrose doublets, and such, but these things are the exceptions. The Kilt Hire industry, the Pipe Band world, and the dress of rugby/football supporters are examples of modern Highland Dress which have diverged somewhat from mainstream Traditional Highland Dress.

[OC Richard]

In my younger days (the 1960s) any hired highland dress consisted of a montrose with jabot and diced or tartan hose with a fly plaid and buckle brogues...

This is very interesting! Quite an expensive outfit for hire, especially the somewhat delicate tartan/diced hose.

this was, at the time, the outfit for a Scottish daytime wedding.

As I've mentioned before, as a piper I have played at hundreds of Scottish-themed weddings here in the USA over the last 40 years, and whenever Scots have flown over for the weddings they are invariably dressed in what would traditionally be considered Evening Dress, though the weddings have always been during the day. (The Scots have nearly always worn black Prince Charlie coatees.)

At my own wedding 30 years ago a number of male guests were in Highland Dress, none in Evening Dress, but rather in Argylls of Lovat, charcoal grey, or black.

[Jock Scot]

This is very interesting! Quite an expensive outfit for hire, especially the somewhat delicate tartan/diced hose.



As I've mentioned before, as a piper I have played at hundreds of Scottish-themed weddings here in the USA over the last 40 years, and whenever Scots have flown over for the weddings they are invariably dressed in what would traditionally be considered Evening Dress, though the weddings have always been during the day. (The Scots have nearly always worn black Prince Charlie coatees.)

At my own wedding 30 years ago a number of male guests were in Highland Dress, none in Evening Dress, but rather in Argylls of Lovat, charcoal grey, or black.

I would almost bet my favourite fishing rod on the Scots you have seen have hired their attire and I would almost bet the farm that they were probably from the Lowlands. No experienced kilt owning and kilt wearing Highlander that I know or have seen, would ever wear attire as you describe at home to a day wedding.

[Jock Scot]

How true and, of course, the crucial statement here is “experienced kilt owning” as most hiring kilt outfits will have little or no familiarity with kilt wearing conventions, not something that we highlanders can be accused of. Not those who can afford it that is.

On the contrary, I can think of more than a few Highlanders who could probably well afford a kilt and kilt attire, who want absolutely nothing to do with the kilt and would not really care enough to notice what kilt attire was being worn.

[Macman]

Fear not, however, I shall carry on with my heretical ways and witness from the sidelines as the finer points of various garments, and really they are just that - garments, are discussed ad infinitum. And, by the way, I am not immune to dress codes where they are pre-ordained by invitation, otherwise I use my own intelligence to dress appropriately.

Steve, I agree with you, and please, do continue with your heretical ways! Your input is valued.