Tell newbie about kilt pins

[Jock Scot]

And with a running commentary in words of one syllable and four letters only..!

Oh yes! Exactly so!

[Troglodyte]

It used to be the case, that the regiment a man had served with determined where he placed his kilt pin when in civvies. I have heard the comment 'Only a Seaforth would wear his kilt-pin like that...' as part of some light-hearted ribbing, as if the pin was was being worn in some outlandish way.

I wonder if that still holds true...

[Jock Scot]

Gosh! I have not heard a comment like that in years. I suppose we don’t have the different Regiments with their different tartans any more , so perhaps there is a uniform place for the kilt pin these days?

[12stones]

Now y'all have me wondering where all of the "vintage" kilt pins being sold on eBay and Etsy came from. ;)

[c0urt]

thanks this thread was pretty helpful

[OC Richard]

I wonder why bandsmen have such trouble with their kilts and kilt pins?

Reasons that come to mind include

1) the band members don't own the kilts, they're issued by the band, and many people are careless with other people's property.

2) some band members, including many teenagers, are careless and accident-prone in general.

3) most band members are new to Highland Dress and don't know how to take care of their kit.

The three things above result in things such as some band members, in between performances, throwing their entire uniform, wadded up in a ball, into a corner of their room or the back of a closet.

4) half of the band are drummers and drummers often "hook up" and "un-hook" the drums. Every time a drummer un-hooks a quite heavy cumbersome object with numerous pointy bits rapidly descends down the front of the person. Anything in the way- like a kilt pin- will get tugged earthward. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a rapidly descending 20-pound object?

5) the other half of the band are pipers and we often have to march, while playing, through crowded banquets etc. Our hands are busy playing the pipes and chairs and tables have to be shoved out of the way with our thighs, upon one of which is attached a kilt pin. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a seated adult?

[Jock Scot]

Reasons that come to mind include

1) the band members don't own the kilts, they're issued by the band, and many people are careless with other people's property.

2) some band members, including many teenagers, are careless and accident-prone in general.

3) most band members are new to Highland Dress and don't know how to take care of their kit.

The three things above result in things such as some band members, in between performances, throwing their entire uniform, wadded up in a ball, into a corner of their room or the back of a closet.

4) half of the band are drummers and drummers often "hook up" and "un-hook" the drums. Every time a drummer un-hooks a quite heavy cumbersome object with numerous pointy bits rapidly descends down the front of the person. Anything in the way- like a kilt pin- will get tugged earthward. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a rapidly descending 20-pound object?

5) the other half of the band are pipers and we often have to march, while playing, through crowded banquets etc. Our hands are busy playing the pipes and chairs and tables have to be shoved out of the way with our thighs, upon one of which is attached a kilt pin. What is stronger, the fabric of the kilt apron, or a seated adult?

I am not from the pipe band scene, but I am shocked and stunned by your comments! I quite understand how drums may catch on a kilt pin, but I am amazed at the carefree attitudes , that you describe so vividly, of band members. I cannot say if those attitudes are present with band members on this side of the Atlantic, I hope not! I rather thought more respect for the assorted equipment and attire that goes to make up a band was present.

I am going to show my admitted ignorance here, but it seems to me and from what you say above, that the band members as a whole-----with exceptions I am sure --------- fail to understand what the whole package of the meaning of belonging to a pipe band. What do they join for then? Just for the music? Just to play the instruments? To go on jaunts to other parts of the country? Is this rather irresponsible attitude universal? If their band and its attire is so unimportant and the fact that "someone" other than themselves appears to pay for most of it? And they appear to care so little about the "uniform"? Then why do they belong to a pipe band?

Do the band members pay for any of their attire?

[EagleJCS]

I am going to show my admitted ignorance here, but it seems to me and from what you say above, that the band members as a whole-----with exceptions I am sure --------- fail to understand what the whole package of the meaning of belonging to a pipe band. What do they join for then? Just for the music? Just to play the instruments? To go on jaunts to other parts of the country? Is this rather irresponsible attitude universal? If their band and its attire is so unimportant and the fact that "someone" other than themselves appears to pay for most of it? And they appear to care so little about the "uniform"? Then why do they belong to a pipe band?

Do the band members pay for any of their attire?

As a pipe band member (currently on hiatus), I'll try to answer some of your questions, from my perspective.

There are a lot of pipers and drummers that love the music, but think the 'whole kilt-thing' is a real pain in the posterior and would much rather have the focus be on the music. 'After all, outside of orchestras, no one else has to wear funny-looking outfits to play their music.' Many of those same folk also don't understand why pipe bands form a circle in competition in the outdoors (mainly so everyone can see the pipe major conducting the band with his foot) and think an orchestral arrangement (an arc on a stage) would be more appealing.

Some band members do join just to hang out and participate in excursions to other places. They play an instrument (usually drums, but sometimes people like this will take up the pipes), but don't really have any desire to progress in their mastery of the instrument.

Unfortunately, there does seem to be a pervasive attitude along the lines of 'I didn't pay for it, so I don't have to maintain it' here in the US, at least from what I've seen. Even when the band has a clause in their bylaws (if there are any) that any band-issued equipment must be returned in good condition upon leaving the band or the exiting member must pay for repair/replacement, some people just don't bother taking care of their equipment. That kind of attitude is beyond my understanding. Growing up, I was taught 'If you take care of your tools, they will take care of you' and 'Clothes aren't cheap - don't tear them or mess them up'. In many cases, bands decide it's not worth pursuing a small-claims (usually under US$1500) lawsuit because of the hassle of finding/retaining a lawyer, filing the suit, then having someone from the band available to actually go to court if necessary.

We have the same issue in the Scouting program - the young men (and now ladies) have to be taught how to care for their equipment and shown what happens if they don't. Sometimes, spending the night in a tent that wasn't cared for properly (rigging a replacement for a broken or missing pole, etc.) or having to spend extra time cleaning up a tool before they can actually use it teaches them better than a verbal discussion.

In my pipe band, members pay for their shoes, kilt hose, kilt pin (if desired), waist belt/buckle, shirts (long and short sleeve), Argyle jacket, Inverness cape (waterproof, not wool), and Glengarry. Many times, the band will order some of these items (mainly the kilt hose) in bulk and offer them to the band at cost, or slightly above, to reduce costs and make sure everyone gets the same look/color. Everything else (the kilt, cap badge, waistcoat, flashes and tie), the pipe chanter, reed & reed cap for the pipes and drums/carriers for the drummers, are provided by the band.

Hope that provides some insight.

[Jock Scot]

Ooops sorry, dual post. Post deleted.

J.S.

[Jock Scot]

Thank you John. I find your interesting and informative post, rather disappointing and disheartening. I have no sensible answer to the rather unsatisfactory situation other than perhaps suggest a stringent culling of membership of unsatisfactory band members who don't act more responsibly.