Oh NO! I'm a Kilt Snob

[MacWage]

What time periods are generally considered the renaissance?

That is a matter of much debate, but the heart was in the 15th and 16th centuries.

[Andrew Green]

MacWage:
Then could it be reasoned that the tail end of the renaissance was in the late 16th-18th centuries?
The belted plaid is dated to somewhere around 1596 if I recall correctly, which would make it appropriate for someone to wear if they decided to dress relatively Scottish, if the . I recalled the feilidh beag being dated to the last few years of the 1600s, so this *might* be appropriate depending on which time period you are concerned with. Modern kilts would be a definite out, as I think those came about in the 1790s, along with industrialization, which is where I would definitely draw the line as what would be called acceptable wear in such an environment.
Once again, if there are any inaccuracies, or questionable content, please correct me, as I like to learn about these sort of things.

[Mark Keeney]

I was at the KC Ren Fest this weekend and noticed the same thing. If you saw a guy in a black Utilikilt with a Guinness shirt that was me. What were you wearing?

I saw lots of really badly worn "kilts" including a girl in a belted, unpleated tablecloth. A couple of guys in the pipe band looked ok as well as a few others. I'll probably go again for the Scots weekend though.

I did hit up the KC Irishfest afterwards and saw a ton of utilikilts and a few decently worn tartan kilts.

I was working a soda booth by the Jousting on Sat. and Monday. Saturday a mostly green and rust traditional Kilt (Weavers tartan) and Monday a mostly blue weavers tartan. With a white Jacobite style shirt (and brown dirt spots from working the soda booth).

Saw Black workmans UK on a big security person and a tan corderoy UK on Saturday.

[Mark Keeney]

Remember:
Ren-Faires and SCA are NOT the same thing, though many participants are in BOTH.
SCA tends to be a bit more realistic and into the real history.
Ren-Faires tend to be more "fun" and less "accurate." Some may have a set period, but I know that some do not, except a medieval-esque and "not-modern."

I have not taken part in either, mostly through lack of time, but have heard MUCH about both, including the guys that first helped me on "kilt 101" some 10 years ago+. (I'll keep opinions on both in my personal life, if you REALLY have to know-> PM me, not in a thread)

Kansas City Renaissance Festival is set during specific times depending on the year. The actors are held to strict guidelines the volunteers (working soda booths) are not. I wore a modern kilt. It isn't right for the time but it is easier to snag a soda out of a tank of ice water without all the extra wool around you.

BTW When I said I was a Kilt Snob, it was what I was thinking. I was very encouraging and polite to all the kilted men and women I met. I also wanted to sell them a soda.

[Andrew Green]

"BTW When I said I was a Kilt Snob, it was what I was thinking. I was very encouraging and polite to all the kilted men and women I met. I also wanted to sell them a soda."

Makes sense to me.

[davedove]

MacWage:
Then could it be reasoned that the tail end of the renaissance was in the late 16th-18th centuries?
The belted plaid is dated to somewhere around 1596 if I recall correctly, which would make it appropriate for someone to wear if they decided to dress relatively Scottish, if the . I recalled the feilidh beag being dated to the last few years of the 1600s, so this *might* be appropriate depending on which time period you are concerned with. Modern kilts would be a definite out, as I think those came about in the 1790s, along with industrialization, which is where I would definitely draw the line as what would be called acceptable wear in such an environment.
Once again, if there are any inaccuracies, or questionable content, please correct me, as I like to learn about these sort of things.

I've always read that generally the Renaissance started in the 14th century in Italy and spread across Europe. The end is generally considered the Elizabethan era in England, the time that a lot of the faires are set. Since the Elizabethan era is the second half of the 16th century, you are coing into the time of the great kilt, so there is some crossover. Tailored kilts are out, but a case could be made for the "little kilt." After all, it is really just the bottom half of the great kilt, which is two lengths of cloth sewn together.

[Cawdorian]

My daughter was in KC this past weekend, she told my wife she went to the the "Scottish Festival" while she was there and saw the pipe band and all of guys in kilts.

I guess I'm gonna have to set the red haired lassie down and have a serious talk with her, I thought, given her Scottish blood, she would have known the difference between a Ren Fair and a Scottish Festival. More education is in order.

[Monkey@Arms]

Just my stream of consciousness thoughts. A Kilt is a garment, but because, as is oft acknowledged, different members of this forum approach them from different backgrounds, we view other peoples wearing of the kilt from our own emotional perspective.

Sometimes its easier when we analogize to something less freighted with significance, like blue jeans. If we saw someone on the street wearing a pair of jeans that he had obviously outgrown (too short, too tight), we might think him clueless as to his personal appearance, but I doubt we'd feel the need to advise him as to how he should dress himself (and indeed it would be rude to do so). Likewise, if he was wearing bell-bottoms from the 1960's we might think him out of style, or trapped in the past, but we wouldn't take it as a personal affront. That's because we recognize all of the above as simply fashion rules. Some people are more fashionable than others, and fashions change. Also, some fashions look better on certain body types, or are associated with the young.

Likewise, if we were at a Western show and the jeans worn by an actor were of the wrong period we might say they were historically inaccurate, but I doubt we'd judge the audience by that standard, even if they got into the spirit by wearing a cowboy hat.

Sure, if a guy that had been raised by wolves and who never wore pants before somehow had them on backwards, it would be a kindness to inform him of this fact, but in a world where I hear it is now a fashion for young men to wear women's low-rise jeans, we should keep in mind that all these kilt "rules" (like how long a kilt should be relative to the knee, or how they are to be pleated, or how heavy the fabric should be) are just fashion rules, and old fashions at that (though often not as old as some would like to believe.)

I personally think that when it comes to something like a modern kilt, such as a UK, its not really valid to say that there is a "right" or "wrong" length. Perhaps one length is more fashionable (and that length may be below the knee), or one length more in keeping with the fashionable length for wearing a formal kilt (mid-knee to just above) but these are just fashion rules, like not wearing white after Labor Day, and nothing more.* (And lets face it these particular fashion rules of kilt wearing are only known, or cared about by our wee subculture.) By the same token, a person making a kilt out of a table cloth to wear as a costume to a Ren Faire may have a good or a bad costume, but its just a costume, and from what I've seen at those events anything goes (including pirates and vikings).

In closing, I kind of doubt the fabled highlander of yore standing shoulder to shoulder with Wallace or The Bruce, went "Tch, Angus, yer kilt's tae long, and that shade of hose, its all wrong!"

Best regards,

Jake

*They only exception is official uniforms, but that's an exception that applies to pants as well.

[Kilted KT]

In closing, I kind of doubt the fabled highlander of yore standing shoulder to shoulder with Wallace or The Bruce, went "Tch, Angus, yer kilt's tae long, and that shade of hose, its all wrong!"

Best regards,

Jake

Nah...he wouldn't a' said anything. He would have just whapped him upside with the head with a Caber....and the point would be understood.

[Chefdave]

My daughter was in KC this past weekend, she told my wife she went to the the "Scottish Festival" while she was there and saw the pipe band and all of guys in kilts.

There was an Irish festival in KC this past weekend as well. I attended that one also. Saw a lot of Utilikilts and a handful of traditionals.