-
13th June 07, 05:39 AM
#31
Are some of the inexpensive kilts discussed in other threads here available in Edinburgh? When my wife and i visited 3 years ago, I don't recall seeing discount kilts per se. Most were still well over $150 at best. I have to admit that I wasn't really looking closely at the time.
Another idea: perhaps kilt manufacturers may want to consider using lightweight wool and other lightweight materials more frequently. I plan on using my 5 yard 13oz kilt this weekend in Aspen, and it'll be about 84 (28 celsius). Now, it's VERY dry up here, but i expect that the wool will work better than canvas pants. Anyway, perhaps lighter weight (and cheaper) kilts would encourage more people to wear them in their country of origin.
All that being said, didn't the clearances in the 1700's and 1800's send most kilt-wearing types to the USA and other places? From what little history i know, I thought that the point of the clearances was to rid the countryside of highlanders and other rabble rousers (which, IMHO, was a benefit to the USA and a loss for GB). Perhaps we "tourists" are the more authentic kilt wearers in that regard :-)
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
Aldous Huxley
-
-
13th June 07, 06:06 AM
#32
[QUOTE=ozone;385271]Are some of the inexpensive kilts discussed in other threads here available in Edinburgh? When my wife and i visited 3 years ago, I don't recall seeing discount kilts per se. Most were still well over $150 at best. I have to admit that I wasn't really looking closely at the time./[QUOTE]
There are plenty of cheap kilts available in Edinburgh. Princes St. & the Royal Mile in particular have loads of "tartan tat" shops selling them. Scots people regard the ownership of a kilt as something very special and, as a rule, keep it to mark special occasions when its significance will be properly appreciated. This can, of course, include rugby & football matches but these, especially against the "auld enemy" are significant and special occasions. Because of this Scots in general would not be seen dead in one of these cheapo kilts and prefer to hire an outfit if they can't afford or justify buying one. I believe Kinloch Anderson for one does sell a cheaper kilt (think they call it a breacan) which has less and lighter weight cloth and is machine sewn but is otherwise what you would call a proper kilt and is probably a good "fa'in doon kilt" for apres drinkies. The tartan tat is mainly for the tourists most of whom wouldn't know a proper kilt if they fell over it. All they want is something to take to show the folks back home and not pay much for it. The number of times I have seen Japanese tourists here walking about with a cheap kilt over their jeans really makes me cringe.
The whole premise of this thread seems to be that Edinburgh folk should parade about the streets in kilts to please the tourists as if the place was one big theme park. What it is is the second largest financial centre in Britain, the capital city and the seat of Scotland's elected government. We don't see women in funny hats and shawls parading around Cardiff or dressed up as leprechauns in Dublin. When did you last see crowds of Yankee Doodle Dandies in New York. Sorry for the rant but a modicum of common sense is needed here.
Last edited by Phil; 14th June 07 at 02:25 AM.
Reason: fix quote [
-
-
13th June 07, 09:25 AM
#33
Phil, good point about the yankee doodle dandies. But, you have to admit: New York is full of New Yorkers....who are an interesting stereotype all by themselves. So, in a way, we do have people parading around in some of our big cities on this side of the pond who very well fit the stereotypes that Europeans have of Americans. OK, let the flaming begin on that comment :-)
Perhaps we Americans just long for Disneyland-type places wherever we go and that's why you are seeing messages posted that are pining for more people in kilts. Well, we tourists will just have to visit Edinburgh in kilts more often to create our own self-fulfilling prophecy.
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
Aldous Huxley
-
-
14th June 07, 04:08 AM
#34
 Originally Posted by Phil
The whole premise of this thread seems to be that Edinburgh folk should parade about the streets in kilts to please the tourists as if the place was one big theme park. What it is is the second largest financial centre in Britain, the capital city and the seat of Scotland's elected government. We don't see women in funny hats and shawls parading around Cardiff or dressed up as leprechauns in Dublin. When did you last see crowds of Yankee Doodle Dandies in New York. Sorry for the rant but a modicum of common sense is needed here.
It's a bit of a reductio ad absurdam summary of the discussions Phil.
Edinburgh isn't "Scotlandland" and it is all of what you say above.
But is does sell itself as several things, one of which is things tartan and it does have the highest concentration of shops selling things tartan that I know. I haven't seen anyone suggest some form of enforced kilt wearing on the populace but I have pointed out the deficit between expectation and reality and I was also careful to point out that the problem is not limited merely to Edinburgh.
Of course common sense is needed, nobody has implied otherwise, but those of us who regularly visit in our kilts and who keep on getting asked for our photos cannot but wonder if it is being applied.
When I visited Philadelphia for example, I saw many people dressed in 18th century costume which was not only interesting but brought back the history of that period, it does not turn Philly into a theme park but it certainly adds to the visiting experience. Is it too much to expect that the appropriate authorities in Auld Reekie could organise something similar?
There are large differences between Edinburgh, Cardiff and Dublin. Cardiff was a village until the middle of the 19th century and the little old ladies with their shawls and pointed hats were to be found in Welsh-speaking areas of the North and West. It has only been the Capital of Wales for 100 years. Leprechauns are mythical, but Dublin was the English stronghold in Ireland for centuries, surrounded by a small area known as The Pale. Edinburgh on the other hand has been the Capital of Scotland for centuries.
 Originally Posted by ozone
Perhaps we Americans just long for Disneyland-type places wherever we go and that's why you are seeing messages posted that are pining for more people in kilts. Well, we tourists will just have to visit Edinburgh in kilts more often to create our own self-fulfilling prophecy.
It's not just Americans, I have posed for pictures with many people from Eastern Europe, the Far East and Japan. I have met kilted people from several countries such as France, Switzerland and Germany. In fact when I see someone in a kilt in Edinburgh I tend to assume that they are visiting.
Yes, there has to be a common sense solution somwhere.
[B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]Reverend Earl Trefor the Sublunary of Kesslington under Ox, Venerable Lord Trefor the Unhyphenated of Much Bottom, Sir Trefor the Corpulent of Leighton in the Bucket, Viscount Mcclef the Portable of Kirkby Overblow.
Cymru, Yr Alban, Iwerddon, Cernyw, Ynys Manau a Lydaw am byth! Yng Nghiltiau Ynghyd!
(Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Isle of Man and Brittany forever - united in the Kilts!)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
-
-
14th June 07, 05:02 AM
#35
I will make an effort to wear a kilt whenever I can but I know the majority of fellow Edinburghers (if that's what you call them) will continue as they are, wearing trousers/pants(pardon the offensive language here) if for no other reason than their place of work will require them to. They all have dress codes and while it may feel good to rebel it doesn't usually enhance your promotion prospects. Yes there is prejudice against kilts in many workplaces even here in Scotland in the same way there is against jeans and trainers too. We live in a society where one is very much judged on appearances still. I have now reached an age where I can proffer two fingers to such constraints whether that is fortunate or not I don't know but I do know there are many reasons preventing younger people wearing kilts on a day to day basis from peer pressure through to financial and career pressures.
Remember too that kilt-wearing was never the norm in Edinburgh or other large towns and at one time kilt wearing highlanders (teuchters) were regarded as country bumpkins and not to be emulated by polite society. Glasgow was more exposed to highlanders migrating to the city but even they quickly lost the kilt habit once there. Nowadays it has become popular and regarded as a symbol of national patriotism.
-
-
14th June 07, 07:51 AM
#36
Of course there are many work situations which prohibit kilt wearing and that's far from unique to Edinburgh or even to Scotland.
But like all towns and cities there are many people not at work at any given time and they are in any case free to decide what they wish to wear in their leisure hours. The trends and fashions they then adopt cannot be put down to work however but factors such as peer pressure then come into play, especially amongst the young. One can see the same "uniform" all over.
Yes indeed kilt wearing was viewed by Lowlanders as a Highland thing and the prohibition of the kilt touched them little if at all. That didn't begin to change until the visit of George IV to Edinburgh when he set the fashion by wearing a kilt (albeit with flesh coloured stockings) and later by Queen Victoria's espousal of things tartan. But it still wasn't seen as everyday attire and still isn't whether it's in Inverness or Dumfries (with honourable exceptions of course!) 
So changing the culture a little on that point is I agree, a challenge. Hopefully where Edinburgh leads the rest of Scotland might follow.
[B][COLOR="Red"][SIZE="1"]Reverend Earl Trefor the Sublunary of Kesslington under Ox, Venerable Lord Trefor the Unhyphenated of Much Bottom, Sir Trefor the Corpulent of Leighton in the Bucket, Viscount Mcclef the Portable of Kirkby Overblow.
Cymru, Yr Alban, Iwerddon, Cernyw, Ynys Manau a Lydaw am byth! Yng Nghiltiau Ynghyd!
(Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Cornwall, Isle of Man and Brittany forever - united in the Kilts!)[/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
-
-
14th June 07, 08:01 AM
#37
Phil, point taken about highlander wear not being the norm in Edinburgh. That being said, there are two Edinburgh's sharing the same space. The tourist buy-your-kilt-and-sgian dubh/quaich/etc.-here part and the cosmopolitan business oriented Edinburgh.
Growing up in San Francisco, I can attest to the schizophrenia that a city can embody. I cant tell you how many times I have run into people who have visited SF and commented on all the wonderful experiences they had buying from crab vendors in Fisherman's warf and seeing alcatraz etc. They often mention places I have never heard of and I am a 5th generation San Franciscan. I will then reply about places I know about in SF and they look at me like I am speaking of a completely different city.
So, to get back to Edinburgh, I think McClef and I and other tourists do deserve some kind of nod to Scottish history. As he well pointed out, Philadelphia has people in historic garb. Perhaps Edinburgh's tourist board could consider encouraging more people to wear kilts between Holyrood and the castle and maybe some folks down on Prince's street. After all, Edinburgh has done it's very best to capitalize on the highlander tradition and therefore should consider throwing the tourists a bone. Besides, as a tourist, when you see someone in Edinburgh in a kilt, you truly feel like you are in Scotland and not just any country/city.
You wouldn't want us tourists to think we were in England would you?!?
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
Aldous Huxley
-
-
14th June 07, 08:05 AM
#38
And futhermore.....
Phil you have GOT to get a picture of a Japanese tourist with kilt and jeans....it would be GREAT for the kilt do's and dont's section.
That men do not learn very much from the lessons of history is the most important of all the lessons of history.
Aldous Huxley
-
-
14th June 07, 09:00 AM
#39
 Originally Posted by ozone
And futhermore.....
Phil you have GOT to get a picture of a Japanese tourist with kilt and jeans....it would be GREAT for the kilt do's and dont's section.
I will do my best - have only seen 2 so far this year and don't always have my camera with me.
I appreciate what you say about the place where you live and Edinburgh has many things you never hear about. I walked around the churchyard at the foot of the High St near Holyrood and their are some interesting gravestones there - one put up by Robert Burns to commemorate another poet, Fergusson. Edinburgh never did have a history concerning kilt wearing and the most they probably ever saw was when Bonnie Prince Charlie marched in so to have some kind of re-enactment would not be in any way authentic. There is a lot of history in Edinburgh but really none of it wearing kilts.
-
-
14th June 07, 09:11 AM
#40
 Originally Posted by Phil
Edinburgh never did have a history concerning kilt wearing and the most they probably ever saw was when Bonnie Prince Charlie marched in so to have some kind of re-enactment would not be in any way authentic.
Particularly as he was a wee italian cross dresser
-
Similar Threads
-
By Phil in forum Kilts in the Media
Replies: 6
Last Post: 22nd May 07, 11:52 AM
-
By Martin S in forum General Kilt Talk
Replies: 8
Last Post: 13th May 07, 02:42 AM
-
By Galant in forum General Kilt Talk
Replies: 12
Last Post: 13th April 07, 08:05 PM
-
By hylander in forum Miscellaneous Forum
Replies: 3
Last Post: 20th March 07, 11:05 AM
-
By Big Mikey in forum Miscellaneous Forum
Replies: 0
Last Post: 16th March 07, 08:04 PM
Posting Permissions
- You may not post new threads
- You may not post replies
- You may not post attachments
- You may not edit your posts
-
Forum Rules
|
|