What does the "dicing" mean?

[acstoon]

I recall reading, somewhere in my travels, the origins of dicing (partially) had religious implications.
According to what I read, dicing indicated protestant affiliation, no dicing displayed catholic affiliation.
Any truth to this?

[Jock Scot]

I recall reading, somewhere in my travels, the origins of dicing (partially) had religious implications.
According to what I read, dicing indicated protestant affiliation, no dicing displayed catholic affiliation.
Any truth to this?

Again,things seem to point to the Hanovarian(protestant)--Stewart(Roman Catholic) thing.The Western Highlands was the power base of Bonnie Prince Charlie and it was no accident that the area had(has still) a strong RC connection.I have never heard of the dicing,or not,referred in religous terms though.

[haukehaien]

Then just to confuse the issue, in some regiments wearing dicing depended on your rank...

Exactly! And in many pipe bands the drummers have dicing while the pipers don't ....

[acstoon]

Again,things seem to point to the Hanovarian(protestant)--Stewart(Roman Catholic) thing.The Western Highlands was the power base of Bonnie Prince Charlie and it was no accident that the area had(has still) a strong RC connection.

Thanks for the clarification!

[macwilkin]

I have spoken to 10 people(plus me) about the meaning of the dicing on civilian bonnets.One(me)wear a diced bonnet.Why?Because I always have.The other 10 wear undiced bonnets.Why?Because they always have!Not very helpful.

We are all aware of some sort of pro/anti Crown/government meaning,but none of us can pin it down to anything specific.Most of us think it harks back to the Hanovarian time.Certainly nothing to do with the present Queen or her government.

The evidence tends to support the opposing viewpoint; that the meaning of dicing is a relatively modern invention, since there seems to be little concrete evidence of dicing symbolizing political loyalty during the Jacobite Rebellions/Hanoverian period. If anything, the colour of your cockade (if you wore one) was more symbolic, since some of the indpendent companies (pro-government Highlanders) wore black cockades with a red saltire, etc.

I think it's something that someone has assigned this meaning to, much as some have have assigned the "ancient pedigree" to the Kirkin' of the Tartans, when in reality it began in America during WWII.

Regards,

Todd

[macwilkin]

Again,things seem to point to the Hanovarian(protestant)--Stewart(Roman Catholic) thing.The Western Highlands was the power base of Bonnie Prince Charlie and it was no accident that the area had(has still) a strong RC connection.I have never heard of the dicing,or not,referred in religous terms though.

See my quote from Stuart Reid where a Stewart stated that the dicing paid tribute to the Stewart arms; by this logic, the dicing would display loyalty to the Stewarts (RCs & Episcopalians).

Reid does discount this theory, btw.

T.

[Jock Scot]

I ,we,THINK that dicing became a form of silent protest after the Stewart cause was lost at Cullodon.Remember,the wearing of the Kilt and tartan in general was illegal,what better way of protesting or showing support to one side or other without actually saying anything.Well how about dicing ,or not,your bonnet?Just a thought?

[macwilkin]

I ,we,THINK that dicing became a form of silent protest after the Stewart cause was lost at Cullodon.Remember,the wearing of the Kilt and tartan in general was illegal,what better way of protesting or showing support to one side or other without actually saying anything.Well how about dicing ,or not,your bonnet?Just a thought?

Hmm...sounds a bit like the whole "king accross the water" over the fingerbowl business...but I still think the arguement that dicing is really a form of decoration, as per Reid's theory, rather than a political statement.

T.

[Jock Scot]

Just an observation.I have never heard of the Diced(pro Crown/government) and the un diced(anti crown/government) spoken of, the other way around.I can assure you that many a mild mannered Highlander will tell you just what you can do with a diced(civilian)bonnet.It will take just five words!

[macwilkin]

I recall reading, somewhere in my travels, the origins of dicing (partially) had religious implications.
According to what I read, dicing indicated protestant affiliation, no dicing displayed catholic affiliation.
Any truth to this?

Just an observation.I have never heard of the Diced(pro Crown/government) and the un diced(anti crown/government) spoken of, the other way around.

Jock,

Please don't think I'm discrediting your observation; on the contrary.

Do I ever think we'll find the answer to the question? Probably not. If anything, this shows how many different meanings people can assign to a simple piece of headgear.

My thoughts: while dicing many not have any hidden political statements per se, its de facto association with the Scottish Regiments of the British Army have led to the belief, regardless of when it orginated, that dicing indicates loyalty to the British Crown. Some today may choose to wear or not to wear diced glengarries or balmorals because of this association, and others may simply not care, but like the "jaunty look" of a diced glen or balmoral. Personally, I prefer diced glengarries and plain balmorals. So I suppose I can sing "The White Cockade" and "God Save the King" with equal enthusiasm, to paraphrase the movie "The Outlaw Josie Wales".

If nothing else, we've contributed to the folklore of Highland dress with this discussion, and that's a good thing.

Cheers,

Todd