Caubeen suppliers?

[O'Callaghan]

Just a point of clarification, but all of the present-day photos I have seen of Canadian Army issue caubeeens show ones with no toories:

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1077/...75ae37.jpg?v=0

http://www.infocomcanada.com/valleye...piescadets.jpg (the young lady in the center is a cadet piper.)

There are some WWII-era photos of the Irish Regiment of Canada in the Osprey Elite title Irish Regiments of the World by Murphy and Embleton, but I don't have my copy handy at the moment. I did find this photo online:

http://oakvilleatwar.opl.on.ca/img/thumb/SW0144t.jpg

Note that the caubeen does have a toorie, and is worn in the style of the London Irish Regiment, with the cap badge over the right eye.

As far as hackles go, the only ones I have ever seen being worn by Irish regiments in the British Army are green. I'm not sure as to the veiled reference to "other meanings". Of course, the Scottish regiments (and now battalions of the RSS) wore different coloured hackles...

Apologies for being pedantic.

Todd

I only mentionned seeing Canadian Army 'caubeens' with toories because I have seen them on eBay a number of times, whereas IMHO if it has a toorie it is really a balmoral. They probably got fed up of people saying that and did away with the toorie! For that matter, the Irish Army pipers' caubeen (black with saffron band and ribbons) is officially referred to as a glengarry, so the Canadian Army are not the only ones whose quartermasters seem confused.

The Irish regiments of the British Army have been amalgamated and now wear a green hackle, but blue hackles and two-tone green and white hackles were worn by regiments that are now defunct, to the best of my knowledge. I'm not an expert on military history.

Green is simply a symbol of Irish nationalism, nothing very veiled about that. First adopted in the rebellions by the United Irishmen in the late 1700s. I understand that their French allies provided green cockades to be worn by the rebels in their hats, and that the shamrock was substituted by those who didn't get a cockade.

[macwilkin]

I only mentionned seeing Canadian Army 'caubeens' with toories because I have seen them on eBay a number of times, whereas IMHO if it has a toorie it is really a balmoral. They probably got fed up of people saying that and did away with the toorie! For that matter, the Irish Army pipers' caubeen (black with saffron band and ribbons) is officially referred to as a glengarry, so the Canadian Army are not the only ones whose quartermasters seem confused.

I believed I've discussed the the IDF's "glengarry" before. McCarron and Embelton's excellent book The Irish Defence Forces since 1922 has some discussion about its use, especially among cavalry and armored forces.

The Irish regiments of the British Army have been amalgamated and now wear a green hackle, but blue hackles and two-tone green and white hackles were worn by regiments that are now defunct, to the best of my knowledge. I'm not an expert on military history.

Quite correct; I neglected to mention the St. Patrick's Blue Hackle of the Irish Guards. The old Royal Dublin Fusiliers wore them as well. The green and white hackles were worn by the old Royal Munster Fusiliers and the Irish Dragoon Guards, according to Murphy and Embleton's Irish Regiments in the World Wars.

Green is simply a symbol of Irish nationalism, nothing very veiled about that. First adopted in the rebellions by the United Irishmen in the late 1700s. I understand that their French allies provided green cockades to be worn by the rebels in their hats, and that the shamrock was substituted by those who didn't get a cockade.

True again, although the Irish Regiments did try to counter its effects with limited success by adopting some nationalist symbols, although it was never quite successful; witness the failed efforts for an "Irish" formation sign for the 16th Division in WWI, made up mostly of Southern Irish Roman Catholics.

Regards,

Todd