Buttons on a Doublet

[Bugbear]

I thought the PC was designed in the early half of the nineteen-hundreds, in the first place...

Although, I'm not sure how big of a change it is to put buttons on the side of the closure and do away with the double row.

[thescot]

I'm sure that the back buttons once actually buttoned for the purpose noted above, and we have retained the look for purposes of assthetics.

You can see a little different button arrangement on Sir Sean's PC here.



Note that he has buttons on only one side. I thin Kinloch Anderson sells a jacket like this.

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

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If you look at the back of this coatee you will see some very nice (and expensive) tailoring of the sort that is absent from your typical "off the rack" Prince Charlie coatee. So, yes, these gentlemen probably were financially better off than most. But don't let that fool you into thinking that only the "upper crust" wore formal attire. Certainly, from 1860 (an arbitrary date) on, the Scottish middle classes were every bit as formal as the aristos seen in these adverts. Life was more formal, and society was more formal. People dressed (within their means) to the same formal standards, regardless of social status.

The main reason so many were able to do this was the availability of mass produced clothing, and that included every item of Highland attire, save for the kilt itself. Obviously mass production requires shortcuts in manufacturing-- a Rolls-Royce has a real wooden dashboard; lesser marques make due with "faux bois" in plastic. In both instances the aesthetics satisfy the consumer, based largely on price. The same is true with the Prince Charlie coatee.

As soon as clothing manufacturers in Leeds realised they could sell a low-cost version of the Prince Charlie coatee into the Highland rag trade there was standing room only on North bound trains. The low cost coatees found immediate acceptance with "the middle classes". Unused to the niceties of bespoke tailoring, they did not notice the differences between their coatee and that worn by the local Laird. And, early on, the differences were not that great. But as demand increased more and more shortcuts were taken, until, at last, some bright spark started simply whacking the tails off evening dress coats and the "cheap and cheerful" Prince Charlie coatee fell within the reach of even the most humble of wage earners.

And with this proliferation of "bob tail" evening dress coats came the double-barreled (or should that be double buttoned?) Prince Charlie coatee. As seems to be the way of the world, bright and shiny covers a multitude of sins and short comings. In this instance tuppence worth of buttons made an indifferent jacket seem more desirable and thus, more marketable.

Those buying "ready made" didn't know-- and probably could not have cared less-- that the flaps and buttons on the "tail" of their Price Charlie were originally there to cover pockets designed to hold a gentleman's gloves and spare collar. In their world such things didn't matter, if they existed at all. What counted was that they were "properly kitted out" for a ball at the assembly rooms. And, courtesy of the sweat shops in Leeds, they were.

(PS: Thanks to Phil for the illustration, shameless borrowed by me.)

[Bugbear]

And if one does not feel right about faking one's social status or class with fake buttons... ?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

And if one does not feel right about faking one's social status or class with fake buttons... ?

Ted,
I hope I have not inadvertently conveyed the impression that someone is somehow "faking" social status by wearing an off the rack Prince Charlie coatee. Far from it. Social status (whatever that may really mean) is dependent on only one thing: being honest.

It doesn't matter if the PC came from Gold Brothers or Stewart Christies, as long as the man inside that jacket isn't pretending to be be something he is not; if he is being himself then he is certainly the social equal of any other honest gentleman in the room.

Truly, amongst gentlemen, actions, not clothes, make the man.

[Bugbear]

I'm sorry, MacMillan of Rathdown, I see how my post probably conveys that.

I'm trying to say, for example, that I would feel better about myself if I had something without all the chrome buttons because I probably wont have that many real silver buttons. I guess I'm looking for a middle ground in all of this.
I wouldn't want to try to fool people into thinking I have something better than I do have; it wouldn't work anyway.

I think you are saying something similar.


* And your posts have been very informative toward the subject and questions of this thread. Thank you. Again, I apologise for that post and for going off track; I enjoy learning about these different styles and tailorings of the jackets. *

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Hi Ted,
In today's world the norm is to have "white" buttons on one's PC-- white meaning "silver coloured"; real silver buttons are the exception these days, and I seriously doubt that even one-in-one thousand gentlemen actually sport sterling buttons on their PC or doublet.

If you don't like the "shiny chrome" look you have a wide range of options, starting with the black plastic buttons (like those found on suits), fabric covered buttons, glass, jett or pewer buttons. Shapes can be square, round, oval... whatever strikes your fancy. It is all a matter of style-- or some might say eccentricity!

As long as you like your buttons-- they are "socially" correct.

[Bugbear]

Hi Ted,
In today's world the norm is to have "white" buttons on one's PC-- white meaning "silver coloured"; real silver buttons are the exception these days, and I seriously doubt that even one-in-one thousand gentlemen actually sport sterling buttons on their PC or doublet.

If you don't like the "shiny chrome" look you have a wide range of options, starting with the black plastic buttons (like those found on suits), fabric covered buttons, glass, jett or pewer buttons. Shapes can be square, round, oval... whatever strikes your fancy. It is all a matter of style-- or some might say eccentricity!

As long as you like your buttons-- they are "socially" correct.

I understand.

It does seem that there are many examples of "eccentricity" in the styles of Highland jackets, as well. Not too long ago, there was a discussion on collarless Highland jackets with pleated backs, for example.

I think I end up in these jacket discussions partly because I am interested in the non-cookiecutter tailoring styles, and how the "off the peg" jackets can be modified to... uncut some of the corners, so to speak. That probably skews my prospective a bit.

* JSFMACLJR, I apologise for getting the thread off track. I am going to start a thread on non-cookie-cutter Highland jackets to continue the discussion; I think there might be a tradition there.. *

[Carolina Kiltman]

I can't say for sure, Monkey@Arms, but the discription of a PC sounds very much like the description of a tailcoat or dresscoat with the tails cut back, as has been pointed out. A tailcoat has those buttons back there, and I think at one time they were funtional in some way. I'm guessing when the PC was designed, they put them back there because the tailcoat has them back there.

Originally the buttons on the back of the tail coat was to hold the tails up when on horse-back. Much like the buttonhole on the left lapel of a modern suit jacket originally went over a button just under the collar on the right, to close up the top when the wind was cold and warmth was needed.

Your guess is quite possibly right on the money. It at least sound plausible.

One less plausible explanation I have heard is that is a show of wealth, the buttons being silver. . . .

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Originally the buttons on the back of the tail coat was to hold the tails up when on horse-back.

I've heard this before, but it always raises the question, "What do the buttons button to?" I've ridden in a tails coat (dressage), and I've seen early 19th century tail coats (C.1820), and none of them were actually designed to be folded in half and buttoned (presumably) to the waist of the coat. I've also never seen a period equestrian painting where a mounted gentleman's coat tails were somehow buttoned up to his coat.

I do know that when a mounted gentleman would arrive at someone's home, he would dismount and proceed into the entrance hall. There he would remove his top boots before continuing on into the house. He did not go about in his stocking feet, but rather put on a pair of lightweight slippers that he carried in the pockets in the tail of his coat.