Sgian Dubhs are not weapons ... It's official!

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

A couple questions. The Sgain used to be up to an inch or so longer if I am not mistaken, thus making the orignal sgain still a weapon. I also thought the tradition was to openly show that you carried one as a matter of trust. When they were more concealed, one was supposed to leave it at the door of their guests home.

Blades on sgians dubh are genreally between 3 and 4-inches in length, with the average being about 3.25/3.5 inches. Some knives are encountered with slightly longer blades -- remember, there was no "Board of Standards" dictating what were originally knives made by the local blacksmith.

Remember too, that the categorizing of Scottish edged weapons is largely a late 19th & early 20th century phenomenon, and rarely (especially in the early days) was the description based on anything other than the single opinion of the person describing the tool in question. Thus, while it was easy to categorize a knife with a short blade as a "sgian dubh" it was much harder to pigeon-hole a knife with a blade of, say, 4.25 inches. Frankly, since there was no one around to challenge the opinion, a knife of that size could have been a kitchen knife as easily as a skinning knife.

Those of us who seriously collect "armes blanche" are acutely aware of the fact that 90% of what we believe to be factual is quite often mere conjecture. To the best of my knowledge no one has left us an original, 16th century manual entitled "The Sgian Dubh: How to Use It, and How to Carry It." We base almost all of our assumptions on drawings and paintings to show us how things were really done. Other assumptions are based on solid fact.

(If you are squeamish, you may wish to jump to the next paragraph.) We know that in Scotland deer were not butchered in the field. Once brought down, the belly of the deer was opened and the entrails dumped on the ground and "left to the eagles". This reduced the weight of the carcass by as much as a third. The carcass was then shouldered, or put on a pony, and taken back to the cottage, house, or castle, where it was skinned and butchered to be eaten. Now because deer weren't butchered in the field, a stalker only needed to carry a small knife-- the ubiquitous sgian dubh.

Sir Walter Scott (and his ilk) created numerous myths to heighten the narrative adventure of their novels-- knives hidden in arm pits, or worn in the stocking to show a lack of treacherous intent, are only two examples that have, with the passing of time and the re-telling of tales, come to be regarded as as facts, rather than recognized as the myths they really are.

So, was the sgian dubh a weapon? NO.

Was it worn in the stocking to show peaceful intent? NO.

It was a hunter's tool, thrust into the top of the stocking as a matter of convenience, nothing more.

[Dall_Piobaire]

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/dubh.html

[andyfg]

http://www.oregonknifeclub.org/dubh.html

Very helpful. Thanks.

[Dall_Piobaire]

Here's yet another that helps to support a combination of both views:
http://unknownscottishhistory.com/articlenineteen.php

I am not prone to falling for children's stories and fairy tales as proof of anything. That being said all myths, superstitions, fables, what have you, have their basis in fact!
:

[andyfg]

Here's yet another that helps to support a combination of both views:
http://unknownscottishhistory.com/articlenineteen.php

I am not prone to falling for children's stories and fairy tales as proof of anything. That being said all myths, superstitions, fables, what have you, have their basis in fact!
:

Another interesting piece. Thanks again!

[Dall_Piobaire]

...and from the Tartan Authority, with whom if anyone disagrees can take issue:

"Sghian Dubh. Black in name and black in purpose, the sghian dubh (pr: skeean dew) was a killing knife secreted in a small holster up a sleeve or near an oxter (armpit). Four to six inches in length, this close-quarter knife was for use when no other weapons were to hand and it is believed that it became more commonly used in the late 18th century between 1746 and 1782 when the Hanoverian Government banned weapons throughout Scotland.

If a Highlander felt in danger in the company he was in, he would sit with his arms folded with one hand on the sghian dubh so that he could pull it out in a flash Dubh is the Gaelic for black and traditionally the handle and scabbard were made from dark coloured woods and leather. After the raising of the proscription (the ban) on weapons and Highland Dress, the sghian dubh came out of hiding as it were and was then worn mainly in the stocking, right or left side, depending on the individual's preference. In the 19th century when the wearing of the sghian dubh became more decorative and less functional, the hilt for daytime would be made from stag horn and the one worn in the evening from ebony and decorated with jewels."


ottish Tartans Authority
Muthill Road, Crieff. PH7 4HQ. Scotland
Tel: +44 (0)1764 655444 Fax: +44 (0)1764 654242 Local rate calls from UK 0845 430 1822

The Scottish Tartans Authority is a Scottish Charity, recognised under Scottish Charity Number SC024310
©2004 All images and articles on this website are the Copyright of the Scottish Tartans Authority unless otherwise stated.

Terms and Conditions of use

Site designed and produced by Vested Interest Design

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

...and from the Tartan Authority, with whom if anyone disagrees can take issue:

"Sghian Dubh. Black in name and black in purpose, the sghian dubh (pr: skeean dew) was a killing knife secreted in a small holster up a sleeve or near an oxter (armpit). Four to six inches in length, this close-quarter knife was for use when no other weapons were to hand and it is believed that it became more commonly used in the late 18th century between 1746 and 1782 when the Hanoverian Government banned weapons throughout Scotland.

If a Highlander felt in danger in the company he was in, he would sit with his arms folded with one hand on the sghian dubh so that he could pull it out in a flash Dubh is the Gaelic for black and traditionally the handle and scabbard were made from dark coloured woods and leather. After the raising of the proscription (the ban) on weapons and Highland Dress, the sghian dubh came out of hiding as it were and was then worn mainly in the stocking, right or left side, depending on the individual's preference. In the 19th century when the wearing of the sghian dubh became more decorative and less functional, the hilt for daytime would be made from stag horn and the one worn in the evening from ebony and decorated with jewels."


ottish Tartans Authority
Muthill Road, Crieff. PH7 4HQ. Scotland
Tel: +44 (0)1764 655444 Fax: +44 (0)1764 654242 Local rate calls from UK 0845 430 1822

The Scottish Tartans Authority is a Scottish Charity, recognised under Scottish Charity Number SC024310
©2004 All images and articles on this website are the Copyright of the Scottish Tartans Authority unless otherwise stated.

Terms and Conditions of use

Site designed and produced by Vested Interest Design

They are undoubtedly knowledgeable in the area of tartans, but definitely should not be considered an authority in the area of Highland arms and armour.

[Tiny]

They are undoubtedly knowledgeable in the area of tartans, but definitely should not be considered an authority in the area of Highland arms and armour.

<sarcasm>
Your probably right they really don't know anything about Scottish history.
</sarcasm>

I am in fact curious what you may be basing this opinion on?

I contend that the Sgian Dubh has always been a weapon of last resort as well as a tool. Today most Sgian Dubhs will never be used to cut anything let alone a person but go ahead and try and enter a pub with one or board a plain. Today the knife is ornamental in nature but still retains its use as a weapon, don't see too many that would be very handy skinning.


Though this raises an interesting idea about a modern evolution of the Sgian Dubh. Does anyone have or have they ever seen a Sgian Dubh handle affixed to a skinning knife?

Something like this with the gut hook?

[Dall_Piobaire]

tiny.

I wonder if having that type of handle would effect the ergonomics of the skinning knife? Though you could do what they did traditionally and have a set of two or three knives, along the same style?

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Hi Tiny,
I am basing my "opinion" on fact; the fact that there is not one shred of verifiable proof that the sgian dubh was ever used, or intended to be used, as a weapon of last resort.

As far as the sgian dubh being a "weapon of last resort", unlike a derringer which was designed for that purpose, I suppose it might be, but in the same way a beer bottle or a screwdriver might be pressed into that defensive role.

The problem with trying to ascribe to the sgian dubh a use for which it clearly was not intended, is that there is virtually no evidence to show the wearing of the sgian dubh before 1700, and very little to suggest that it was worn in the period 1700-1750. Conservative historians of arms and armour actually place the sgian dubh in the late 18th century. With the literally hundreds, if not thousands, of illustrations that have come down to us of Highlanders, the sgian dubh is conspicuous by its absence until about 1790-- a time when the Highlands were "at peace". And even then, it is not widely seen. Why is that, do you suppose? Now there is a good reason for this, and that is that the sgian dubh was, in all likelihood, only used when hunting. When not in use in the field the sgain dubh was most probably pressed into service as a household utility knife, peeling spuds, chopping turnips and the like.

So, based on facts drawn from reliable sources and from the examination of contemporary paintings, drawings, and etchings, any reputable historian would not hesitate to label the romantic fantasy published by the Scottish Tartans Authority (or anyone else) as pure hog wash.