The Tweed Argyll.

[Jock Scot]

Aye, the style of kilt (more or less) is a couple hundred years old; but the cuff style harkens back to a still-earlier period when the feileadh mor was still more commonly worn than its descendant, the kilt more or less as we know it now.

Mind you, some might prefer the "gauntlet" cuff for precisely that reason, as a way of "linking" earlier and more recent forms in a "flow" of tradition. I'm totally fine with that.

For my own part, I have clothing specific to the early-to-mid 1700s (including "accessories" such as broadsword and dirk that I'm totally competent to use in physical conflict) and to our current sartorial fashions, but I don't usually mix them.

You forget one thing though, the argyll cuff is still very much in use and is very much in fashion STILL, in the Highlands!

[Bugbear]

Thank you Brooke and the others that have answered my question. It is your choice of what style of jacket you decide to wear and I would not presume to question your choices.An observation though, if I may.

I can't quite understand your(plural) reluctance to wear an "old style" cuff on your jacket when you are standing out in the crowd by wearing the kilt in the first place and considering that the style(more or less) of kilt you are wearing is some two hundred years old, I can't quite follow the logic of that. But, each to their own.

I suppose I don't mind the "old style cuff" on a formal kilt jacket, I was planning on having them put on a black conversion argyle back in the day.

I was just used to the plain cuff on jackets, as in suit jackets for daywear, and it seemed like one less thing over which to feel out of place.

Not an issue now...

[OC Richard]

Thanks Jock for the observations!

Yes we Americans tend to overthink things and overdo things.

For sure, in my mind a black Argyll seems suited to some occasions and a check tweed to others.

Indeed to my eye a Barathea Argyll with silver buttons, a charcoal grey tweed Argyll, and a tweed Lovat or check Argyll seem to speak to three different levels of formality.

It's helpful to know that this is not the case with Scots.

I have taken to wearing a charcoal grey tweed Argyll for most all occasions, in place of the black Barathea Argyll with silver buttons which is nearly universally worn by pipers. The concept of "no black during the day" is finally penetrating my thick old noggin.

In recent weeks I've piped at two morning church services where the Pastor was in kilts. The American guy (with the resoundingly Scottish name of Duncan MacColl) wore a Prince Charlie complete with fly plaid, the Scottish guy wore a tweed Argyll. There's the difference in a nutshell!

About the issue of full Argyll jackets with cuffs and epaulettes v plain kilt jackets, it's interesting to note that in The Highlanders Of Scotland (1860s) the light grey, mid-blue, or light brown tweed jackets are usually quite plain. Some have Argyll cuffs, and several have plain round cuffs (which I haven't seen on any modern kilt jackets).

[Whidbey78]

Perhaps because it looks too much like a mid-1700s holdover?

Actually, this may hold water.

I have to go with MacMillan's son on this, but with my own addition. I live in cowboy country, and most of the guys out here could set a horse before they could walk. They work cattle and fences on horseback, and other than a few things that have changed due to necessity they raise beef the way it's been done in this part of the world for nearly 200 years. Now, if one goes to a funeral, wedding, church, school board meeting, etc. he would see real cowboys in their "native" garb. You will see suits, both western cut and standard, some wear matching trousers, others a new pair of jeans, boots, and their "good" hats. While the style is in the spirit and tradition of what their own ancestors here would have worn they don't look like the people in those pictures from when this area was first settled. Nobody is running around here looking like Wild Bill Hicock, or Bill Cody, though there are a few John Waynes.

So that being said, I feel that one reason for not going for the more decidedly Scottish style is that it would appear a bit "costume like." I regularly go kilted to the same places these cattlemen are going, so it's not an issue of being out of place or too flashy. It's too late for me to blend in. In my case, I figure that if these men, who still live where their traditions originated and still live that same lifestyle(albeit modernized), do the same job, and even live in the same houses aren't dressing the same way their great-grandfathers did, then I shouldn't either, especially considering that I haven't even been to Scotland, certainly never lived there, am not in an occupation that has any real traditions of its own, and most likely my ancestors from Scotland didn't even wear the kilt.

So, I just do what the rest of folks out here do. I dress in a way that "tips the hat" to heritage and tradition, and shares a lot of common points with the way it was done centuries ago (and in Scotland today), but do it in a way that is both practical and appropriate given my location, means and tastes.

I won't muddy the waters with my wearing of t-shirts, hiking boots and the like while kilted--that is a whole different animal.

I hope that makes sense.

On another note...

I always appreciate your input Jock. I'm even getting over the color-matching disease and recently picked up a couple of thrift-store waistcoats that don't match any jackets I have! It's very...liberating.

I must agree with you Jock about the lowered standards of dress prevalent with the under-25 set but definitely seen with all age groups here. I recently attended an award ceremony with a physician friend of mine (he was one of several being cited for accomplishments that day), and was shocked that men and women who not only work in a field that has a tradition and reputation of being well dressed and appropriately dressed, and have the financial means to buy very nice clothing, were mostly wearing jeans, khaki pants and plain button down and polo shirts. I was wearing kilt, modified blazer, a modified waistcoat(straight cut at the bottom), plain kilt hose with home-made garter ties, plain black oxfords, a plain colored tie, white shirt and the dreaded flatcap...and I looked over-dressed. I excused myself after about 30 minutes and ditched the tie and jacket in the car, but kept the waistcoat because it covered a stain on the shirt! Here I am, early thirties and trying to finish school while raising a family, have to save for a Coca-Cola, and my standards are higher than theirs. I'm supposed to be under-dressed! My friend also showed up with tie and jacket and elected to put them in the car after I did. As we used to say in the Navy, "Whisky, Tango, Foxtrot?"

[Woodsheal]

I have this charcoal-grey tweed set (not including the 'retch' tie and fancy sporran) that serves me well for all 'dress up' occasions:



... plus a converted light-brownish tweed jacket, with plain cuffs, for less dressy times. I figure that's all I really need, and have no interest in Prince Charlies, Montroses, Sheriffmuirs, etc....

[Dale Seago]

So that being said, I feel that one reason for not going for the more decidedly Scottish style is that it would appear a bit "costume like." I regularly go kilted to the same places these cattlemen are going, so it's not an issue of being out of place or too flashy. It's too late for me to blend in. In my case, I figure that if these men, who still live where their traditions originated and still live that same lifestyle(albeit modernized), do the same job, and even live in the same houses aren't dressing the same way their great-grandfathers did, then I shouldn't either, especially considering that I haven't even been to Scotland, certainly never lived there, am not in an occupation that has any real traditions of its own, and most likely my ancestors from Scotland didn't even wear the kilt.

Yes, this is an excellent description of "the feeling" I'm talking about. I'm not suggesting that it's either a good or bad thing, but I suspect it lurks in the background of a lot of folks' sartorial decisions on this side of the water.

[creagdhubh]

Well said Jock, and thank you for posting such a clearly understandable topic in regards to the tweed Argyll - for something so simple in design and purpose, it still amazes me how many people continue to become confused about a tweed jacket (with or without a waistcoat) with the kilt.

Charcoal Tweed Jacket and Waistcoat


Lovat Green Tweed Jacket and Waistcoat


Lovat Blue Tweed Waistcoat (Jacket set aside for obvious reasons)


An array of different coloured/style of Tweed Jacket


Cheers,

[Jack Daw]

Thanks for your comments, Jock, especially in regard to wearing them informally in the evenings.

[creagdhubh]

Beautiful Argyll Jack, looks like a estate tweed inspired design - purchased from The Scottish Tartans Museum Gift Shop no doubt? I love Matt's selection of fabric that can be used for jackets and waistcoats!

Cheers,

[Jack Daw]

Beautiful Argyll Jack, looks like a estate tweed inspired design - purchased from The Scottish Tartans Museum Gift Shop no doubt? I love Matt's selection of fabric that can be used for jackets and waistcoats!

Cheers,

Thanks, Kyle. Yes, that's right. I also have Argyll jackets and waistcoats in a brown herringbone Harris tweed, a salt-and-pepper Ardalanish tweed (from the Isle of Mull) (both arranged and purchased from Matt and his STM), and the usual black barathea. The pictured jacket and waistcoat are of 100% wool. For our short winters in Texas, those should do me nicely for some time.