Bad news

[Freelander Sporrano]

As a well established customer you have my support Hermann.

I have a job where I can't wear a kilt so I understand . Strange how people react especially in a caring enviroment like your work place I'd expect a little more understanding.

[Ranald]

Yes, he´s the boss´s boss, no way past him. And I have to add that this is a Christian House(TM) founded by brethren.
And with wife and three children I will not risk anything for what is after all a clothing issue.
I will go to our works council, but as we belong to a churches welfare council our rights as workers are even less than usual. So I do not think anything can be done other than wear a "trousers stink" T-shirt.
It is just that I´ve been wearing my kilt to work for ca. 1/2 year without anybody protesting and now I have to change back! That sucks!!

Hermann, one of my views in life if your going to go into a fight the best victory is to win with their own rules.
I maybe out of line here but didn't Jesus in his teaching say something about obeying the laws of the land....then how is it you have less rights because you work for the church?
I'm also in agreement with Shay, I'd put a robe on like Jesus.
Be warned though that if you challange their authority you could be dismissed for breaking the rules so you have to be prepared from the start to take it all the way.
I can tell Hermann you're a intelligent guy, and I wish you luck if you decide to fight this ridiculous ruling.

[Freedomlover]

Hermann, I wonder if you have read my article here on this site about Christians and kilts? http://www.xmarksthescot.com/articles_id.php?id=1
there may be something helpful.

Great article. Thanks, Graham!

[Riverkilt]

Hermann...that's SAD!

You might take heart from the article on Jerry Griffin in the Nov '04 Utilikilt Newsletter...he got some clan lawyers to sue. Not sure how that would work in Germany. Here's the article...about middle of the page, the guy with the shotgun...

http://www.utilikilts.com/newsletters/2004-11/

You could also buy a copy of Men in Skirts and leave it laying about...they'd be glad to have you in a kilt rather than some of the fringe MUGs.

Check out also www.macabiskirt.com for the Macabi men's river skirt...more businessy than a sarong...

Ron

[Archangel]

sorry to read about this happening.

One of the hard things about teaching Human Rights is how difficult it is to enforce.

If I'm understanding this right, the man with the issue is the rep or executive of the agency that has control over your org. Readers should be aware that Brethren is the denomination here that I referred to a while ago. The lady across the street was mentioning to my wife that I shouldn't be going about showing my elbows. That drives women to sexual distraction. She showed my wife the literature and this from a less conservative branch. So there's is quite a chasm to bridge here.

If it's like most law settings then the religious org. has some protection but it would not be applicable in this case. I have to assume that you're simply wearing a kilt, that doesn't challenge any docrinal position and so they can't claim that protection.

Jurisprudence is that the kilt wins.

If you challenge, other religious org. may intercede on your behalf because they definitely don't want any openings where the gov't can touch the orgs' already tenous position.

A challenge is long and generally fought from an unemployed position. Most Human Rights Boards are swamped and only deal with people who have lost their jobs as a priority.

Of course, all this is general, and not specific to Germany. Check with a lawyer before doing anything. In the chess game of life you may just have to suck it up.

In the end, I really only have two bits of advice. The first is to try what Jesus suggests and go to that man and see if he will hear you out, and yes, take that essay that was already referenced. It adds weight to your statement.
Two, I have a couple of contacts with these orgs. PM the name of the org and see if there is a happy coincidence. I will not do anything without contacting you and getting permission. I will not pass it on to anybody else.

[Graham]

Great story Ron, I had a look around the Utilikilts site too, not done that for a long while, it raised some questions but I'll make another post rather than get this OT.

[Archangel]

Great story Ron, I had a look around the Utilikilts site too, not done that for a long while, it raised some questions but I'll make another post rather than get this OT.

That is a good story, we'll put that in the armoury.

In my case, I would have gone home so quickly....but then I am in a very good position. We actually had a situation here a few years ago. After 9/11, the US flexed and some dormant military trade laws were rapidly applied here in Canada. Many were sent home, mainly Scots, including the HR manager, also Scottish. It was a funny situation, "You're not US or Canadian born so you cannot work in this Canadian plant so you must go home, and so do I." Of course, this is blatant violation of our laws so everybody involved went home with pay for several weeks. The rest of us Scots were waiting with bated breath to be sent home but our department was too far removed to be affected. Ultimately, it was resolved that somebody high up had been over-zealous and most were able to return. Some, not Scots, are still affected and there is legal stuff going on so I'll shut up here.
One more ironic thing, for those who appreciate Canadian history. Newfoundland did not become part of Canada until 1948. We had at least two guys who were born in early '48 in Newfoundland. We were waiting to see how that would pan out since, legally, they weren't Canadian born. The situation was resolved before it came to them.

[motorman4life]

You could also buy a copy of Men in Skirts and leave it laying about...they'd be glad to have you in a kilt rather than some of the fringe MUGs.

Unless maybe they are afraid if they open the door to kilts that they will get men in drag, high heels, etc..

My feeling is, that if they allow women in skirts and pants, they should allow men in kilts. What if someone objected that they felt uncomfortable with women in skirts? Or women in pants? Or women in kilts? What would they do about it? What if you wore a yarlmuke or turban? If that made someone uncomforable would they make you remove it? How does wearing a kilt interfere with your duties?

In a professional environment, professional clothing should be allowed. This includes kilts for men that chose to wear them.

[Archangel]

Unless maybe they are afraid if they open the door to kilts that they will get men in drag, high heels, etc..

My feeling is, that if they allow women in skirts and pants, they should allow men in kilts. What if someone objected that they felt uncomfortable with women in skirts? Or women in pants? Or women in kilts? What would they do about it? What if you wore a yarlmuke or turban? If that made someone uncomforable would they make you remove it? How does wearing a kilt interfere with your duties?

In a professional environment, professional clothing should be allowed. This includes kilts for men that chose to wear them.

Most likely your first sentence covered it. Typically this denomination's standards discount the rest: typically the women will not wear pants anyway and the others are religious and not likely to be there except under special circumstances.

In most other setting your perspective is completely valid.

(Should note that my comments are based on best guess.)

[Alan H]

this link might prove useful...

http://www.newble.co.uk/hall/

It's the "Hall of Fame of Scottish Preachers"

Also, the Iona Community

http://www.iona.org.uk/

These are just links to interesting Scottish Christian sites. Our very own M.A.C. Newsome has a very 8informative page on Scottish Saints.

You cna also try here, to search for some other scottish/kilt-related Christian links which you might pass on to them that has minds open enough to hear...

http://www.scottishchristian.com

Good luck.