Hand Tailored

[Chef]

Nick, you keep taking this as a personal attack and it is not. I hold no ill feelings towards you or your product. I have no personal experience with your product and I'm certainly not aware of complaints or ill will directed to your company or products on this site (the Fedex debate aside) so I have no reason to attack you. I wear kilts on a regular basis and would be happy for an equal (or better) quality garment for less money...I mean I am a Scotsman.

That said, I have several times asked for you to demonstrate what you are talking about but instead you choose to paint me as someone who is attacking your integrity. I am merely stating my opinion and the opinion those I have spoken to over the years. I accept the possibility that a kiltmaker may be giving a sales pitch when selling a hand-stitched kilt as a better product. Perhaps you are the only one who is not; I don't dismiss that possibility. I think it is odd that I have never spoken to anyone who chose a machine stitched kilt over a fully hand-stitched one for any reason other than price. Again my sample may not be broad enough so I am open to learning. Yes I am skeptical; you are the first person I have heard counter those ideas.

You accused me of playing the man and not the ball, but I believe it is you who is doing that. I have repeatedly asked for you to show what it is your talking about so that everyone here can learn. Instead of doing that you keep accusing me of personal attacks. That I am

"saving this board for more uncontroversial approbation and validation of your existing views, and absence of independent voices, you perhaps prefer"

I am not. Simply stated, you made an assertion that goes against what I feel to be the commonly held belief. I have challenged you on that and asked for you to demonstrate the differences you are referring to. I personally consider that a good debate not a desire to squash ideas.

But honestly unless we are going to take this further than you accusing me of personal attacks because I have challenged an unconventional assertion I see no point in continuing.

[The Wizard of BC]

Gentlemen,
As another advertiser here on X Marks I too have felt the need to temper my remarks for fear of sounding like I was tooting my own horn. I too have been accused of doing just that.
I also have had a hand in this thread and am partly to blame for this being derailed from it's original simple question.
May I suggest we put this discussion on hold and let this thread die. The original question has been answered.

Nick, you hinted that you may have something to show us in a while that may be interesting. I eagerly await your announcement of that development in the Kilt Store section of this forum. I will join you in discussion of it there where we can be as pointed as we want and you can rightfully and fully toot you horn loud and clear. And I will support your tooting wholeheartedly.

I am not a moderator, just another advertiser and member. I cannot close this thread.
But I can ask that we respect each other for our own views and differences of opinion.
Before more words are exchanged let us agree to end this here.

[Chef]

But I can ask that we respect each other for our own views and differences of opinion.
Before more words are exchanged let us agree to end this here.

As I mentioned I see no point in continuing.

[Nick Fiddes]

Agreed. I'm truly sorry if I am being oversensitive here, and I apologise for any offense I may have caused in turn. I guess it perhaps simply is a bad idea for me ever to offer views that go beyond the 'corporate'. That's a pity. I'm sorry Chef but my point being one of aesthetics rather than of practicalities is not one I can prove or disprove, but merely report. I can only put my hand on heart and swear I'm not lying when reporting the existence of different aesthetic judgements by others I've encountered. But I can't prove that, so you're free to disbelieve me, and let's leave it there.

[northernsky]

My new kilt, ordered from Nick, is an all hand stitched, which I paid extra for. I liked the idea of a completely hand-stitched kilt as it may be the only 8 yd knife pleat I'll ever own, and it was done on a speciality tartan. I paid extra because there was extra hand labour involved. Just as I would expect to pay extra for any master craftsman to make anything rather than a machine or heaven forbid, by a mass market factory. I trusted Nick (with good reason) to have fine workers do the hand sewing. Am I adept enough to be able to see the difference...maybe not, but knowing I have a hand sewn kilt makes me feel better about it.

[Chef]

Nick, apology certainly accepted and I too apologise for anything I said that you felt was a personal attack. None was meant.

I also don't think you should stop offering views that go beyond the "corporate" one. Good debate is a learning experience and can be a great deal of fun. We got a little side tracked on this one is all.

I realise you could not quantify some of your statements and that they are not things that can be proven. What I was hoping you might do is give us illustrations (via comparative pictures possibly or some other way) of the aesthetics you were referring to. As I mentioned I have seen many kilts in my day, fully hand-stitched, what you refer to as hand-made and others that are not pertinent to this discussion. I have seen good and bad examples of both of the types we are talking about. However, not being a kilt maker, I have never compared the two types closely enough side-by-side to easily understand the point you are making. I would very much be interested to learn more.

So please add new info and viewpoints to the forum, and please don't be insulted if a cynic like me questions you. Think of yourself as a Galileo in the kilt world.