4th Nor Cal Rabble Burns Night Supper (photos & videos)

[Arlen]

if a group of us in the UK got together on the 4th of July and had a 'usa independence ' party where we wore silly hats and did comic readings of your constitution or bill of rights or whatever documents are important symbols to the struggle of your people... and held up pictures of pigs vomiting and big arses during it... and lost our place and every laughed at how stupid it all was... I'm glad to know you would find it funny... but I doubt many people in the usa would think it was funny at all...

since this is 'Black History Month' in the usa- perhaps you should do a comic reading of 'I have a Dream' in Blackface...

then maybe you will understand what you just did to the Address Tae a Haggis.

Robertson, I was referring to your statements above. Implying that what they did is similar to offending someone by blacking it up or by making fun of the U.S. Constitution: In short, being racist or xenophobic. If that was not your intent, fair enough, but that's how I read it.
What they did doesn't seem very similar to me at all.
And, lets be fair, the poem does talk about pig vomit and buttocks. And the cards explained in a humorous fashion what the words meant.

I think on this point we may have to simply agree to disagree. You have every right to feel like they were laughing at the works of Burns. I don't believe they were.

Perhaps it's time to just let it be.

[Panache]

The playwright William Shakespeare wrote some absolutely amazing works during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Now the language and meter he used in those plays can be difficult to a modern audience to understand. Yet his plays have been constantly performed in a varied manner since his death. With each generation and performance the actors and theater staff had to decide how to approach this text and make it live and breathe. Picture for a moment the the stereotype of the stuffy, black clad, skull bearing, snobbish Shakespearean actor sneering down at the masses that don't understand the Bard's works. Is this fellow truly serving the text by holding it in his iron-gripped reverence?

There is a lot of poignant incredible stuff in Shakespeare's work. However there is also quite a lot of bawdiness too. I used to go to the Shakespeare Santa Cruz productions every Summer and I loved how each cast and production would bring their own take to the work. Some I liked, some I didn't. But I appreciated that each one tried to make that story and those words live.


Now the question at hand is whether or not we approach this particular work as iconic where there are set traditional parameters required of it within the context of a Burns Night Supper celebration. Or is each group free to approach that work in their own way? Are Burns Night Suppers about Robert Burns or are they a Scottish Heritage celebration? When we look at Burns himself, do we do so as a Scottish Icon, or as a patriotic (though certainly flawed) poet and song writer?


Last year I wrote a script for Jake and I to bring a translation of this poem to our event. This year my lovely wife and good friend Jake did something different. Personally, I like mine better (but then again I wrote it ). Now all three of us know this poem and we completely understand and appreciate it. None of us meant this as an insult to any Scot and none of us meant disrespect to the memory of Robert Burns.

You know I remember Raphael posted a rap version of Burn's haggis poem last year. I absolutely loved that this group took these words and made them live for themselves and a new generation. I don't know what the Nor Cal rabble will do next year for our Burns Night Supper. It might be a well done though "straight" recitation. Maybe not. I can promise you that it won't be boring. And it will be done with respect for the Plowman Poet and the joy that exists in his works.

Cheers

Jamie

[Arlen]

I'm afraid I have to disagree.
As Jamie said, the images used are exactly those from the poem.
I love Robert Burns, his work and what he did for Scotland. I think he should be rightly honoured for those things and Burns suppers are fitting tributes to him.

The address was written in a time where the French revolution, Scottish patriotism, the American revolution and many other things were either in full swing, brewing or just finished.
Most of the Burnsian Scholars I have spoken to agree that the Address was a way he showed patriotism and stood up for humble Scottish values and people; With that said, though, they agree that it is a light-hearted and sometimes comic piece.

I adore Robert Burns for many reasons, but I don't put him on a pedestal. Many of his works were serious works done under a comic prose and he himself described them as such.
At the same time as half of Scotland was lauding him while he was still alive, the other half was appalled at his excessive drinking, his consistent philandering and many other things.

I have seen people recite it as dry as cardboard and other give Brian blessed a run for his money with dramatic flair.
I think it neither racist not offensive that the NorCal group took his work and gave it a comic edge that helped those not familiar with him both understand the poem itself and feel included. That is how many people become converted to Burns and make the effort to learn such things as Lallans.

While I can certainly understand someone being offended that they took a poem so beloved by modern Scots and performed it in a more comic than grave manor, I find it a little wild to say that it is racist or xenophobic.
I think that's starting to run into Godwin's law territory.
"As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches"




As far as the headgear; I think it is well known on this forum that the NorCal rabble like to wear a fez or pith helmet. They even explained it in the first video. They even made a point of saying, and I paraphrase 'We love Robert Burns and having Burns suppers but we are a comic bunch and this is reflected in our hats and the way we present things.'

I simply don't understand why anyone would find it so terribly offensive unless they genuinely believe that Robert Burns himself was a perfect and Grave man and that Burns night is THE night of Scottish culture and heritage.


Now, if they were to do a comic rendition of the Declaration of Arbroath, THEN I would be very offended.

[macwilkin]

Post deleted.

[Pour1Malt]

Arlen- please watch it again- can you honestly say they are laughing WITH Burns and not AT him? I cannot... maybe if he took the silly hat off... maybe if he didn't pretend to lose his place and then laughed... maybe if he even tried to say the poem with some degree of respect... maybe if he didn't keep turning around away from the audience to giggle like a buffoon... maybe if the images were not done comically... maybe if the images were not paraded around behind him- distracting from the poem...maybe maybe maybe... it would be what you are trying to say it was... but it wasn't...

this appears to be a very clear attempt to take the piss out of Burns, the Scots language, haggis (which is much more than just a food item- as you I both know), and Scottish patriotism...

oh.. and you lost me on one thing... no one said it was racist or mentioned Nazis but you.... I'm not quite sure where you are going with that one...

[Monkey@Arms]

Arlen- please watch it again- can you honestly say they are laughing WITH Burns and not AT him? I cannot... maybe if he took the silly hat off... maybe if he didn't pretend to lose his place and then laughed... maybe if he even tried to say the poem with some degree of respect... maybe if he didn't keep turning around away from the audience to giggle like a buffoon... maybe if the images were not done comically... maybe if the images were not paraded around behind him- distracting from the poem...maybe maybe maybe... it would be what you are trying to say it was... but it wasn't...

this appears to be a very clear attempt to take the piss out of Burns, the Scots language, haggis (which is much more than just a food item- as you I both know), and Scottish patriotism...

oh.. and you lost me on one thing... no one said it was racist or mentioned Nazis but you.... I'm not quite sure where you are going with that one...

Since we are getting a bit personal here, I shall weigh in. I am sorry anyone took offense, it was not intended.

The general goal was simply to provide a light-hearted translation of some of the more arcane language used in the Address. I have the Address well memorized, but Star and I both work full time in our respective professions and live in different cites, and so did not have a chance to rehearse our joint presentation. I had to look backwards towards her to know when it was time to give the next verse, which did actually cause me to lose my place, at which point I had to ad-lib briefly. Any "mockery" on my part was self-mockery, and not directed to Burns.

I am guilty of having introduced the fez one beery night to the Nor Cal Rabble, because it went with my monkey side, and I am afraid it just caught on, because that's just the way we roll. We enjoy each other company, we like to have fun, we like kilts, and we like good food and drink (I for one eat haggis every chance I get), and we try not to take ourselves too seriously.

I can't speak for Robert Burns, as he is long dead, but I suspect the man who collected "The Merry Muses of Caledonia" would not share your moral outrage.

Best regards,

Jake

[Pour1Malt]

sorry... one more thing... you say the images are from the poem- that is only slightly true...

taking literary illusions and poetic phrases and turning them into literal cartoon images.. is less than honest representation...

an example:

The Star Spangled Banner
by Francis Scott Key

Oh! say can you see, (hold up image of eyes)
by the dawn's early light, (hold up a lighter)
What so proudly we hailed (hold up image of taxi)
at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad (hold up image of big woman)
stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight, (hold up image of boxers)
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? (throw streamer)
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, (pop a popper)
Gave proof through the night(hold up image of starry sky)
that our flag was still there;
Oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave (hold up image of people waving)
O'er the land(hold up image of dirt)
of the free
and the home of the brave?(hold up image of Native American Brave)

[Mrs. Farlander]

If I was singing the Star Spangled Banner for a bunch of non-English speakers I would be glad to have the images you mention illustrated. What's the point if the audience don't understand?

I'd probably also have to mention that the tune came from an English drinking song called To Anacreon In Heaven.


The Star Spangled Banner
by Francis Scott Key

Oh! say can you see, (hold up image of eyes)
by the dawn's early light, (hold up a lighter)
What so proudly we hailed (hold up image of taxi)
at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad (hold up image of big woman)
stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight, (hold up image of boxers)
O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming? (throw streamer)
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air, (pop a popper)
Gave proof through the night(hold up image of starry sky)
that our flag was still there;
Oh, say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave (hold up image of people waving)
O'er the land(hold up image of dirt)
of the free
and the home of the brave?(hold up image of Native American Brave)[/QUOTE]

[Panache]

Elise,

Actually Robertson's visual plays on words wouldn't clarify the song like Star's did to explain the meaning of Burns' language. The hurdies, the pig, the nit, the sned limbs, "kites bent like drums", and such are actually in Burns' poem.

I also have to think that there might be a difference in tone between our national anthem and Burns' poem about a haggis.

Cheers

Jamie

[Pour1Malt]

aye- I guess I best leave it as you say Arlen

the old phrase comes to mind...

"Never Teach a Pig To Sing,

it is a waste of time

and annoys the pig"

(hold up cartoons of a pig, music notes, a clock, and a pig)