traditional vs. classic

[CMcG]

Jock Scot's point is right in line with one of my main questions in this thread. While I love looking at old pictures, seeing "romanticized" Highland attire, and marveling at military or piper's uniforms, I don't want to dress that way in my modern civilian life. I do, however, want to have an informed and respectful grasp of tradition.

Let's talk specifics. Obviously weapons are out, but what else should be avoided when it comes to the historical representations of Highland attire shown above?

[HeathBar]

Obviously weapons are out, but what else should be avoided when it comes to the historical representations of Highland attire shown above?

Using the picture in the previous posts, plaids of any size and cross belts. Unless, of course, you are a piper.

[creagdhubh]

Using the picture in the previous posts, plaids of any size and cross belts. Unless, of course, you are a piper.

One could most certainly wear the 'shoulder' plaid with day wear. All this is, is a pipers plaid, unpleated, folded length wise, then folded in half and folded again, and thrown loosely over the left shoulder. One could also wear it like a piper's plaid, yet with no brooch-just wrapped across the chest, around the back, and the 'tails' thrown over the left shoulder. The plaid looks best with purled fringing-not the typical finging you see with fly plaids.

[creagdhubh]

I think we are in danger for falling into the trap that the artist may have intended. I do not believe for one second that the attire worn by the gentlemen in this and other like pictures was normal daywear for Scots, even well to do ones. These pictures should be regarded as nothing else than trying to "sell" the romance of Scotland. We can all dig out our Sunday best,or a Dress uniform and pose for a picture, but we all know that is not and never will be, normal wear.

I think the hat in question is known as a "hummel".

I completely agree with Jock Scot. I have an undergraduate degree in fine art and am an accomplished oil potrait painter and have analyzed Macleay's work for around 7 years. His portraits of the Highlanders are indeed impressive, however, one who is looking at them for inspiration and ideas with regards to the wearing of their own Highland attire should use steady caution. I would agree that there are certain elements from the Highlanders presented that could be pulled out and used in today's wearing of Highland dress-mainly ideas for the fullest of full dress for evening wear. You have to remember, Macleay painted those portraits in the 19th-century, during the reign of HRH Queen Victoria, it was the style back then for Highlanders, with some wealth or stature, or retainers of the Queen herself, to wear all kinds of items such as pistols, broadswords, targes, huge plaids, horsehair sporrans, etc. Some of which you could most certainly adapt and wear today. However, you also have to understand that each specific Highlander was a representation of a Highland clan, which means there is no doubt that the respected Chief of each clan would want his men that sat for the portrait to look their best in all of their finery. The book ('The Highlanders of Scotland'-which is presently hard to fine-Haggerston Press) actuallly has a written portion that describes how much money it took for the models to prepare for their portraits-written in the 19th-century by Amelia MacGregor.

[OC Richard]

...no doubt that the respected Chief of each clan would want his men that sat for the portrait to look their best in all of their finery.

This gives the impression that all the men are dressed in elaborate Highland costume. Many are, but many others are in quite plain dress.

Of the 56 kilted figures, 24 are in the "Celtic" jackets so popular at that time, but 21 are in plain "day" jackets.

Absolutely plain grey tweed day jackets, plain Balmorals and Glengarries, plain hose, and ordinary Oxford shoes are not what comes to mind when we speak of these men being dressed in "finery".

[creagdhubh]

This gives the impression that all the men are dressed in elaborate Highland costume. Many are, but many others are in quite plain dress.

Of the 56 kilted figures, 24 are in the "Celtic" jackets so popular at that time, but 21 are in plain "day" jackets.

Absolutely plain grey tweed day jackets, plain Balmorals and Glengarries, plain hose, and ordinary Oxford shoes are not what comes to mind when we speak of these men being dressed in "finery".

Come on now my good man, you are preaching to the choir here! Of course not all of the Highlanders featured in the book are dressed in finery, and you are correct, some are indeed dressed in normal day to day attire, I know that. I am speaking of the 24 in the so called "Celtic" jackets (doublets of many kind, many of them looking like today's regulation doublet) you speak of. Excuse me for giving that kind of "impression" that all the men are dressed in elaborate costume-and they are not "costumes" in my opinion. I have studied that book for a long time, as I am sure you have as well. Cheers!

[Tobus]

I think we are in danger for falling into the trap that the artist may have intended. I do not believe for one second that the attire worn by the gentlemen in this and other like pictures was normal daywear for Scots, even well to do ones. These pictures should be regarded as nothing else than trying to "sell" the romance of Scotland. We can all dig out our Sunday best,or a Dress uniform and pose for a picture, but we all know that is not and never will be, normal wear.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking... and it's why I asked. Personally, I think it looks a little too 'stiff' for normal everyday attire. But it does look impressive!

So, with CMcG's suggestion of specifics, what items in the portrait do you believe would have been normal everyday attire?

Buckle brogues and ghillie brogues: common traditional daywear items, or only "Sunday best"?

What about the horsehair sporrans? Diced hose?

I know these items seem to have fallen out of common use for daywear in our modern era. But I personally see them as 'classic'. I just don't know how 'traditional' they were in the 1800s, in terms of being worn outside formal/military occasions.

[creagdhubh]

Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking... and it's why I asked. Personally, I think it looks a little too 'stiff' for normal everyday attire. But it does look impressive!

So, with CMcG's suggestion of specifics, what items in the portrait do you believe would have been normal everyday attire?

Buckle brogues and ghillie brogues: common traditional daywear items, or only "Sunday best"?

What about the horsehair sporrans? Diced hose?

I know these items seem to have fallen out of common use for daywear in our modern era. But I personally see them as 'classic'. I just don't know how 'traditional' they were in the 1800s, in terms of being worn outside formal/military occasions.

I would reserve buckle brogues, tartan hose, and dices hose for evening wear. Ghillie brogues are okay for all occassions, except if they have buckles attached to them, then I would reserve them only for formal dress. Of course if you are a piper, you could wear buckle brogues and tartan or diced hose as part of your uniform during any occassion, which would be correct.

[Tobus]

I would reserve buckle brogues, tartan hose, and dices hose for evening wear. Ghillie brogues are okay for all occassions, except if they have buckles attached to them, then I would reserve them only for formal dress.

Yes, I understand that this is the fashion today. But is this the way it was done in the 1800s as well?

[creagdhubh]

Yes, I understand that this is the fashion today. But is this the way it was done in the 1800s as well?

No, not at all. It seemed like back then, any type of leather brogue was the norm. Even ankle type boots with kilt hose!