The fulle plaid:
Essentialy there are two types of kilt; the Feileadh Mor (also known as Geat Kilt or Breacan Feile) and the Feileadh Beg which is the more common type of kilt. The Feileadh Mor (pronouncied 'phili more'),is really just one length of double width tartan, usually 6-7 yds in length which is gathered into pleats and belted round the waist. The Feileadh Beg is a hand or machine sewn garment which is worn just above the hip and fastened by buckles.
After reading the article posted by the Tartan Museum I think your right innthat I'm wrong about some of the pipers in the pictures in that they are most likley wearing the "Half" belted plaid which is worn with the Feileadh Beg. I think that the folks in your picture are also wearing the Feileadh Beg with a form of shoulder plaid.
Really! i didn't know that. It's too bad that they aren't being played by someone, pipes die when they are left to dry out. Any idea who the pipe maker was?
No clue, but I can find out by asking the current museum curator in Newtonmore. I'll get back with you.
Could not some or all of these old photos show a belted plaid, rather than a fly plaid? One photo in particular definitely shows the belted plaid:
John McD could be wearing one, but only because the picture isn't clear enough. The others, such as the piper above, don't look to be wearing a belted plaid to me. The giveaway is the lack of fabric above the belt as an extension of the front apron. It wouldn't just disappear.
John McD could be wearing one, but only because the picture isn't clear enough. The others, such as the piper above, don't look to be wearing a belted plaid to me. The giveaway is the lack of fabric above the belt as an extension of the front apron. It wouldn't just disappear.
Sandy, are you referring to the kind of plaid that Matt reconstructed from Erskine? Separate, but attached to a belt? this photo rather looks like one of those to me.
Are we just getting horribly confused by overloading the term "belted plaid" (which in my memory usually means the breacan an feileadh). I begin to see Matt's wisdom in naming the other one "half-belted plaid!"
Ken Sallenger - apprentice kiltmaker, journeyman curmudgeon,
gainfully unemployed systems programmer
Sandy, are you referring to the kind of plaid that Matt reconstructed from Erskine? Separate, but attached to a belt? this photo rather looks like one of those to me.
Are we just getting horribly confused by overloading the term "belted plaid" (which in my memory usually means the breacan an feileadh). I begin to see Matt's wisdom in naming the other one "half-belted plaid!"
Have to agree with Jack Daw on this one. I see no evidence on any of those pipers that their plaids are doing anything other than hanging straight down. There are no indications of the "drape" that you would necessarily get from the garment being attached somewhere in addition to the shoulder.
EDITED TO ADD: When you compare this guy...
...to Matt's half-belted plaid...
...you will notice that the top plaid is fringed at the bottom, while on Matt's, this is actually a fold where the cloth drapes. Completely different animals.
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
Could not some or all of these old photos show a belted plaid, rather than a fly plaid? One photo in particular definitely shows the belted plaid:
I think we're all getting tangled up on terminology, because different things are sometimes called by the same name and visa versa.
So here are some desciptions of different items followed by the various names used...
1) a huge rectangle of tartan that's held round the waist by a belt. This is variously called breacan an fheilidh, feileadh mor, feile-mor, great kilt, or belted plaid.
2) a smaller rectangle of tartan, roped fringe all around, with a narrow cloth belt that goes round the waist and a tab of tartan at the other end which goes through the epaulette and is pinned to the shoulder with a brooch. This was adopted by the Scottish regiments around 1800 when the modern "little kilt" replaced the feile-mor. Its purpose was to simulate the appearance of the feile-mor.
Though originally worn by all ranks, it later became a mark of Officer's dress.
It's long been popular for civilian Evening Dress. In pipe bands it was worn by drummers.
It's variously called a belted plaid, evening plaid, drummer's plaid, and fly plaid.
It's called the "belted plaid" in my several vintage Highland Dress catalogues from the 1930s and 40s.
3) a small rectangle of tartan, fringed all around but otherwise plain, pinned with a brooch at the shoulder and hanging free at the bottom. Called a fly plaid. As far as I know this is a recent development, devised to create some of the look of the belted/evening/drummers plaid at less expense.
In any case all those vintage photos would be showing #2 above, the Officer's/belted/drummers/evening plaid.
Back to the topic of Day Plaids or Laird's Plaids, nowadays there's a clear distinction between them (being simply a retangle of cloth thrown over the shoulder or wrapped around the shoulders) and a so-called "piper's plaid" which has long fringe on both ends and has sewn-in pleats. (I say so-called because they were also worn by certain Sergeants and Officers in the Highland regiments, and not only by pipers.)
But in the "old days" the pleats weren't sewn in and therefore a "piper's plaid" and a "laird's plaid" might be the same thing, the only difference being in how it was worn and whether or not a brooch fastened it. This is seen in the 1860s The Highlanders of Scotland, where many plaids fall somewhere between what we would call a Laird's Plaid and what we would call a Piper's Plaid.
...you will notice that the top plaid is fringed at the bottom, while on Matt's, this is actually a fold where the cloth drapes. Completely different animals.
The so-called drummer's plaids, worn by Highland military drummers and officers (and originally by other ranks) from c1800, and also long popular for civilian Evening Dress, are indeed fringed all round but also have a fold at the bottom, as they go up to a cloth belt at the waist. They were usually called Belted Plaids (but not to be confused with the ancient Great Kilt of the same name) but were also called fly plaids or Evening plaids.
They're a fairly heavy and complex garment and quite different in character from modern "fly plaids" which are merely a rectangle of cloth.
These traditional belted/drummers/officers/evening/fly plaids could be mistaken for a modern simple "fly plaid" when partially seen in a photograph, I suppose. In person the difference is clear.
The so-called drummer's plaids, worn by Highland military drummers and officers (and originally by other ranks) from c1800, and also long popular for civilian Evening Dress, are indeed fringed all round but also have a fold at the bottom, as they go up to a cloth belt at the waist. They were usually called Belted Plaids (but not to be confused with the ancient Great Kilt of the same name) but were also called fly plaids or Evening plaids.
They're a fairly heavy and complex garment and quite different in character from modern "fly plaids" which are merely a rectangle of cloth.
These traditional belted/drummers/officers/evening/fly plaids could be mistaken for a modern simple "fly plaid" when partially seen in a photograph, I suppose. In person the difference is clear.
I think you're right Richard (as was Sandy). It's been more than a decade (thankfully) since I've had to put on a #1 dress as a pipe band drummer. I didn't remember the plaid hanging as loosely as in those photos. Here you can see the drummer's plaid in action:
Last edited by SlackerDrummer; 1st March 11 at 03:00 PM.
Kenneth Mansfield
NON OBLIVISCAR My tartan quilt: Austin, Campbell, Hamilton, MacBean, MacFarlane, MacLean, MacRae, Robertson, Sinclair (and counting)
I think we're all getting tangled up on terminology, because different things are sometimes called by the same name and visa versa.
2) a smaller rectangle of tartan, roped fringe all around, with a narrow cloth belt that goes round the waist and a tab of tartan at the other end which goes through the epaulette and is pinned to the shoulder with a brooch. This was adopted by the Scottish regiments around 1800 when the modern "little kilt" replaced the feile-mor. Its purpose was to simulate the appearance of the feile-mor.
Though originally worn by all ranks, it later became a mark of Officer's dress.
It's long been popular for civilian Evening Dress. In pipe bands it was worn by drummers. It's variously called a belted plaid, evening plaid, drummer's plaid, and fly plaid.
It's called the "belted plaid" in my several vintage Highland Dress catalogues from the 1930s and 40s.
In any case all those vintage photos would be showing #2 above, the Officer's/belted/drummers/evening plaid.
Ah, well this provides the clarification. I stand corrected.
Originally Posted by Andrew M. Stewart
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