Fake Scots Titles

[Jock Scot]

You are correct Jock, however it is one of the few historic Scottish Titles left and some do misuse the Laird title by converting it to Lord for one thing and do use it for villainies purposes as well as self aggrandisement.

We are not going to disagree there. These sad fellows who are causing such upset with our traditions makes me glad to be a "Mr." and that is just dandy for me!

[xman]

I'd want to be Thane.

[Detroitpete]

I live in a country with no royal aristocracy--No Lords, Ladies, Dukes, Viscounts ad inifinitum. And aside from fraternal and/or religious organizations, very few (thankfully, in my mind) Knights. I cannot for the life of me imagine why someone would want to call themselves something they aren't.

[Mike M.]

Ah, but what of the famed Kentucky Colonelcies?

[madmacs]

Well just to add my 2c... which probably isnt even worth that much...

If I misrepresent myself as an engineer... doctor... land surveyor... lawyer... etc etc etc... then i'm doing something wrong...

Whether it is a misrepresentation by the seller or not, for the individual to assume something because it was sold to them doesnt remove THEIR obligation to do their due diligence... would they consider walking round calling themselves Chief of Police, Mayor, senator, congressman, or any number of other titles? No, because they KNOW it to be incorrect.

In many cases I suspect that most of the people using a title know it didnt come for $30... and as for the Laird/Lord thing... until recently a Lord was allowed to sit in the House of Lords... that would have meant someone claiming not only to be a Lord, but also a polititian in the UK ( and before anyone says anything... i know the law was changed).

[EagleJCS]

Ah, but what of the famed Kentucky Colonelcies?

Living in the Commonwealth and actually knowing a few KY Colonels personally, I need to comment on this: Except for Harlan Sanders*, I haven't heard of anyone in recent years making use of their Honorable Kentucky Colonel title to promote themselves as something they're not. (A Kentucky Colonel is commissioned by the Governor, is an honorary status, has no official military or civil duties, and carries no pay or other entitlements.) I'm sure if someone were to misuse their commission in some way, the certificate could be revoked.


* Col. Harlan Sanders was from a different day and age and people were more 'forgiving' of the percieved use of the title. Folks (both the recipients and the general public) understood it to be honorary and generally didn't try to get something out of it that they weren't entitled to.

[macwilkin]

Living in the Commonwealth and actually knowing a few KY Colonels personally, I need to comment on this: Except for Harlan Sanders*, I haven't heard of anyone in recent years making use of their Honorable Kentucky Colonel title to promote themselves as something they're not. (A Kentucky Colonel is commissioned by the Governor, is an honorary status, has no official military or civil duties, and carries no pay or other entitlements.) I'm sure if someone were to misuse their commission in some way, the certificate could be revoked.


* Col. Harlan Sanders was from a different day and age and people were more 'forgiving' of the percieved use of the title. Folks (both the recipients and the general public) understood it to be honorary and generally didn't try to get something out of it that they weren't entitled to.

Well said and spot on. Texas and Nebraska have their "Navies", and Arkansas their "Travelers", which are totally honourary awards.

T.

[ohiopiper]

Doesn't U.S. law forbid a U.S. citizen from recieving titles from a foreign nation, other than those awarded for work in the arts or humanities? For example, an Ohio man was recently awarded a knighthood from France into an order that bestowes knighthoods based solely upon performance in the performing arts. By contrast, an American, if I am correct, cannot be knighted by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, as it would be a violation of U.S. law.

Or am I wrong? And would not titles of lordship fall under this category?

[gilmore]

Doesn't U.S. law forbid a U.S. citizen from recieving titles from a foreign nation, other than those awarded for work in the arts or humanities? For example, an Ohio man was recently awarded a knighthood from France into an order that bestowes knighthoods based solely upon performance in the performing arts. By contrast, an American, if I am correct, cannot be knighted by Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth, as it would be a violation of U.S. law.

Or am I wrong? And would not titles of lordship fall under this category?

You are partially correct. The US Constitution prohibits US citizens who are government officeholders from receiving foreign titles without the approval of Congress. Ordinary US citizens can, and do, receive all sorts of foreign honors (or honours, depending on who is handing them out.) I am not aware of Congress doing so lately, not since World War II, when legislation was passed that allowed, I believe, anyone serving in the US armed forces to receive foreign honors.

Americans and other non-UK subjects are not knighted by HM the Queen, but that is a British custom, not American. Instead, they are given honorary knighthoods, as were Rudi Giuliani, Bob Geldorf, and many others.

Quite a few Americans are given knighthoods by the Knights of Malta, a sovereign entity, and papal knighthoods and titles of nobility, the Vatican also being a sovereign state. Or they were. I don't know if the present pope or the last one ennobled anyone. Pope John Paul II broke with tradition and didn't ennoble his own family. At the time he was quoted as saying something like, "They are Polish peasants. They wouldn't know what to do with a title."

[gilmore]

Living in the Commonwealth and actually knowing a few KY Colonels personally, I need to comment on this: Except for Harlan Sanders*, I haven't heard of anyone in recent years making use of their Honorable Kentucky Colonel title to promote themselves as something they're not. (A Kentucky Colonel is commissioned by the Governor, is an honorary status, has no official military or civil duties, and carries no pay or other entitlements.) I'm sure if someone were to misuse their commission in some way, the certificate could be revoked.


* Col. Harlan Sanders was from a different day and age and people were more 'forgiving' of the percieved use of the title. Folks (both the recipients and the general public) understood it to be honorary and generally didn't try to get something out of it that they weren't entitled to.

In Georgia attorneys are called "Colonel," being officers of the court, though it is old fashioned epithet rarely used in seriousness. It is wickedly fun, however, to see the puzzlement and discomfort of Yankee lawyers new to Georgia addressed in this way in court.

An attorney friend once told me he was puzzled and confused when the judge before whom he was appearing kept addressing the opposing counsel as "Mr Speaker," when his name was Murphy. Later he learned he had gone up against the Speaker of the Georgia House of Representatives.