How will the market change?

[tundramanq]

Not suggesting pants wearers are not part of the self assured. I am suggesting that to wear a kilt everywhere as daily garb in the US puts you in a group that requires a good sense of self worth that most do not possess. They are adults no longer subject to teenage type peer pressure and will consider doing something that is out of the normal. Until it became a part of the counter culture you would call them free thinkers.
The ones that ridicule something different are the sheep trying to protect their own sense of normal. They are very resistant to change.
Does that clarify anything.

[TheOfficialBren]

***!!!We have all made some valid points. I love this forum.I know I'm still a noob but I have learned so much about kilts and all things Gaelic/Celric here. I totally agree about the self-worth comments, Allen. One must be comfortable with ones self if one first and foremost. Trousers are nothing to balk at; no one would call The Duke a pansy...nor any of the other great people you mentioned. Be yourself first. Other people can bugger off if they do not accept you for who you are.

[Tobus]

The worth, independence and "impact" of a person is not measured by whether their clothing has an inseam, or not. Just because "we" wear kilts does not make us "better" or "More Manly" than any guy who chooses to zip up or button up a pair of pants.

It doesn't?! Aw crap, I've been hoodwinked!

Seriously, though, while your point is valid and well taken, there is something to be said for clothing being a reflection of a person's true nature. How many times have we all heard someone say to us, "Man, I really like that kilt but I'd never have the guts to wear one"? What this says is that people, by and large, are letting their true desires be quelled by what they perceive as societal norms. For all of our blather about being a free-thinking modern society where 'acceptance' is the term du jour, most people are too timid to really be independent.

And if I may diverge for a moment, this isn't just specific to clothing. It's in all aspects of our society. From politics to religion to lifestyle choice to a million other facets of life, human beings are inherently herd animals. Well, OK, we all know that this term is often used in a pejorative sense. And perhaps 'herd' isn't really accurate, since we're not grazing animals who stay together to avoid predators. But we're more like ants or bees. Human society (be it at the local level or even the national level) does require a sense of uniformity in order to function properly. If the members of the colony have too many differences, it simply doesn't work. This goes back to our tribal origins, and the evolution of human society. And so, subconsciously, humans will tend to want to fit in with everyone else around them. This isn't a bad thing, necessarily. It's hard-wired into the human psyche.

That said, it does make for an interesting study in sociology when you look at a simple thing like clothing. Even with something as 'out-of-the-norm' in American society as kilts, you'll find that the motivations are often the same. There are those who wear the kilt traditionally, because they want to 'fit in' with a segment of human society that they identify with (namely, Highland Scots and their descendants). But even amongst those who wear non-traditional kilts, you'll find a certain desire for acceptance within a group. The Utilikilt marketing strategy takes advantage of this, for example. Wearing their product, for many customers, is a way of identifying with a certain lifestyle or image. And even for those who wear contemporary kilts for comfort and practicality, with no overt sense of trying to match a certain image, they still have their own personal standards on how they'll wear it. Choosing not to wear it in a certain way, in order to avoid identifying with a particular image, is just as significant as trying to match an image.

OK, so I'm rambling now. I guess the point is that we shouldn't try to put too much meaning into it. Does wearing a kilt in modern American society make you stand out? Of course it does, and that takes a certain amount of guts. But Alan's right. That fact alone doesn't necessarily make you a hero, a leader, a free thinker, or anything else. In many ways, you're still part of the hive in which you live (or which you choose to identify with).

[frank_a]

Good post Tobus. I firmly believe homogeneity (at least in this country) has been primarily enabled by the ubiquitous TV. Heaven forbid you don't dress like (put actor/actress name here). Just think if we didn't have TV - high schoolers on the east coast wouldn't be talking with southern California accents (think 90210, or I think that was the show). Maybe I wear a kilt (soon to be more than one) because I don't watch the idiot box!

Frank

[Tobus]

Good post Tobus. I firmly believe homogeneity (at least in this country) has been primarily enabled by the ubiquitous TV. Heaven forbid you don't dress like (put actor/actress name here). Just think if we didn't have TV - high schoolers on the east coast wouldn't be talking with southern California accents (think 90210, or I think that was the show). Maybe I wear a kilt (soon to be more than one) because I don't watch the idiot box!

Frank

It's easy to blame the television for trends we don't like. But the television is nothing more than a tool for communicating ideas across vast distances which were fairly isolated before its advent. In that respect, it's not too different than the internet, except that the internet gives us the ability to be interactive instead of being mere observers. And without the television or internet, our lives would be completely different. Given that the kilt is not really a part of everyday life or culture here in South-Central Texas, I would say that I probably wouldn't own a kilt without the television or internet. So, despite the drawbacks that we often lament, it's important to realize and recognize the advantages that come with it too.

Yes, these forms of mass communication and entertainment are making our society more homogenous. But in many ways, they have also broadened our horizons, and that's a good thing. And even going back to the original question of this thread (how will the market change?), I think that both the television and internet play a fundamental role in that.

[tundramanq]

*** Tobus - that's a lot clearer than what I wrote - I need the change out the sawdust between my ears - the idea to word translator just didn't work well yesterday. Geezerdom approachith.

[frank_a]

It's easy to blame the television for trends we don't like. But the television is nothing more than a tool for communicating ideas across vast distances which were fairly isolated before its advent. In that respect, it's not too different than the internet, except that the internet gives us the ability to be interactive instead of being mere observers. And without the television or internet, our lives would be completely different. Given that the kilt is not really a part of everyday life or culture here in South-Central Texas, I would say that I probably wouldn't own a kilt without the television or internet. So, despite the drawbacks that we often lament, it's important to realize and recognize the advantages that come with it too.

Yes, these forms of mass communication and entertainment are making our society more homogenous. But in many ways, they have also broadened our horizons, and that's a good thing. And even going back to the original question of this thread (how will the market change?), I think that both the television and internet play a fundamental role in that.

It is easy to blame TV. It was B&W and three stations (NBC, CBS, and ABC) when I was a kid. I raised 3 boys who are now between 28 and 35 and there is no question in my itty bitty brain that TV homogenized our society in the states. There are plenty of examples, not just 90210. How about NASCAR?

While I am not a TV watcher, haven't been for decades and can't imagine being one in my old age, I am a proponent of the web for the ability to interact with other folks who are as strange as I am in some regard, be it hot rods, classic boats, kilts, you name it. If I was a TV watcher, I can't imagine I would be into wearing kilts! Maybe others could, but I just can't imagine it.

Enjoy your day!

Frank

[CMcG]

As I'm reading through this thread, I'd say the market has changed a lot in the last 10 years. There are now, or have been, several different options for modern kilts that cost less than $100 (Elkommando, UT, SportKilt {"specialty" fabric}, Celtic Croft {canvas}, Tripp, 5.11, etc). Given that there is more material and labour involved in a kilt, I don't think they need to price-match a pair of jeans, cargo shorts, or chinos.

So what would it take to really change this market? A subculture adopting modern kilts en masse. I'm not talking about a fad, but rather the way hip hop has consistently embraced sports gear or rock has long been associated with jeans and leather jackets. Of course not everyone who wears sports gear or jeans and a leather jacket is identifying with those music-based subcultures, rather the broad, long term support from those cultural cohorts has facilitated a mass market for that clothing. There have been fads within both, such as Starter's puffy team jackets in the early 1990s or fringed leather jackets in 1980s, but the overall style has been fairly ongoing.

I don't know what subculture might be most likely to lock on to modern kilts, but that is another question. There are already several groups that have niche involvement with them (hikers, goths, carpenters, etc), so maybe one of those will really latch on? Utilikilts has been trying to build their own lifestyle group (branded Utilikiltarians), but I think it would need to be more attached to an activity, rather than just a clothing mindset.

Or maybe if some large company adopted modern kilts as their uniform? That would certainly increase the public's exposure and also create a big manufacturing demand...

[Tobus]

Excellent input, Colin! I think you're absolutely right about subcultures or groups needing to latch on to the modern kilt in order to really establish it within a particular context. That may be why Utilikilts' advertising, while partially successful, has only gone so far. It's still just a "clothing mindset", not really attached to a particular activity.

As an avid hiker/backpacker who wears the kilt for this, I've really been trying to get others interested in the idea. I've had a couple of guys express interest, but not much has come from it. Seems like a perfect option to me, but I'm sure a lot of manly-outdoorsy-types still cringe at the thought of putting on a 'skirt'. And plus, even we kilties could agree that there are some activities where a kilt is just plain impractical. Like when I did my trip to Guadalupe Peak, hiking on cliff-edge paths in 70 mph winds. That's not kilt territory, and perhaps a lot of hikers are turned off by the idea that the kilt doesn't have all-weather-condition versatility.

It would be nice to see a large company adopt a modern kilt as their uniform, but that's probably a risky move. I couldn't see a large company requiring men to wear one, as that would be extremely unpopular. And while there are some (like Walmart, where Ern works) who allow it as an alternative to trousers, it just doesn't seem to gain much traction with the work force. So the uniform idea is probably out. The modern kilt would need to gain traction through the interest of those wearing it, not by any sort of corporate decree.

[tundramanq]

Thanks Colin, for reminding me of my fringed leather jacket in the back of my closet. It ought to go good with my new leather Utilikilt this winter. Yep - 80s LOL