Will you order an X Marks kilt?

[Colin]

I have a range of T-shirts made with fabric loomed in Morocco (no duty on that), sewn in Ireland (depends on where they go, whether there's duty from there), and printed in Scotland (uh-oh, now we're talking a UK 'origin'). On $3000.00 worth of T-shirts (wholesale cost), I have to pay over $900.00 in Customs duty and brokerage. Ouch! If I just brought in the fabric from Morocco, $0.00. If I brought in blank shirts and had them printed here, still a low cost on the duty from Ireland. But once they become 'Products of the UK', suddenly they become a premium target for Customs duty. It hardly seems fair, but that's the way it is! So, on these shirts, I have to charge $20.00 to $25.00 retail to make any money on them at all, whilst a consumer can go to Wal-Mart and get a similar-looking printed shirt, though not with the same graphics of course, for less than $10.00! My customers are paying $10 to $15 extra for the graphics and the 'Made in Scotland' label. The graphics are great, and my customers want Scottish-produced goods, and that's why I buy them. But it irritates me that I have to pay so much Customs duty just because they come from the UK.

I can recommend a really good Celtic shirt company in North Carolina

[Colin]

Around June 3rd. I publish the web page that's the order form. X-Markers who want to order fabric print the web page and write me checks and mail them to me. I'm planning on giving you all two weeks to get them to me. If somehow enough checks to make the minimum order sadly never arrive in my mailbox, then I'll e-mail/PM you all and tear up your checks. Then I'll go get drunk because I will have done a *+^&^%$# of work for nothing. I'm counting on you lads and lasses to step up to the plate when it comes time to send me dollars, OK? If you're gonna have excuses, tell me NOW, not a month from now!!!

Assuming enough money arrives, then after two weeks I go to the bank, cash your checks and wire a money order to N. Bately or Fraser and Kirkbright OR I send the money to the "distributor", the kind person/business who has a retail/resale license so that A.) we're leagal, here and B.) we get the "to the trade" discount, and are not paying retail cost for this.. It's now June 15th.

Alan, would it not be wiser to have Hank set this up through highlandtide, as it is a registered company with payment options (paypal), rather than sending the cash to yourself. I would hate to see any discrepency occur, and for you to take the brunt of it after all of your hard work. Sometimes people get confused (sending too little, or not sending it at all), and than it is a personal matter between two people rather than a business matter.

I am not ordering an Xmarks kilt, but I would prefer to go through a company rather than sending my cash to someone I met online (that's just me). I don't want anyone here to get burned in any way for a project that has been conceived by and for the members of this forum. Just a thought.

[Alan H]

Alan, would it not be wiser to have Hank set this up through highlandtide, as it is a registered company with payment options (paypal), rather than sending the cash to yourself. I would hate to see any discrepency occur, and for you to take the brunt of it after all of your hard work. Sometimes people get confused (sending too little, or not sending it at all), and than it is a personal matter between two people rather than a business matter.

I'd love to do that, but the primary person I've talked to that has an existing business was pretty adamant about wanting to receive money from ONE source to pay for all of this, not from thirteen sources. I didn't find that to be an unreasonable requirement, so I figured I'd function as the handling center for the money.

I'd be delighted if Hank would do it, but Hank hasn't answered a PM from me in over three weeks, and I don't know what's up with that. He's not pursued the second order of X Marks pins, either... not sure why. I mean, it's his business if he wants to do another round of pins, and I expect he's just really busy, but, well.... there you go.

[Alan H]

I work for a shipping business, and I do a lot of oversees shipping as well as recieving packages sent form various countries to the US. I have foun d that a good rule of thumb is to expect a 30% customs and duties fee, see Cyndi's post ($900 on $3000 of merchandise. Of course that can vary depending on country of origin and type of comodity, as well as on who is processing the shipment. There is just really no way of calculating the cost before hand. I never try to estimate duty costs, I just tell my customes to expect a 30% hit.

Thirty percent, huh? I originally crunched my numbers based on the price N. Bately told me as a maximum and added 20% for import duty. Another 10% will negate essentially all the price advantage to be gained by going with N. Bately over Fraser and Kirkbright.

[Colin]

Alan, When you got your price quotes, did you account for the fact that Fraser and Kirkbright may be in Canadian funds? If it is woven up here in Vancouver, I suspect that this may be the case.

[Alan H]

Just so everyone understands where we're at right now...

Fraser and Kirkbright:

We have a quote for 13-14 ounce material
minimum order 25 meters (we're VERY close to that right now)
$53 Cdn... $42.54 USA per meter
There's minimal, if any import duty from Canada to the USA. There are two X Marks kiltmakers within 30 miles of the Fraser and Kirkbright mill, and a number of people on the X Marks froum who have experience with their tartan.

For comparisons sake, the price from N. Bateley Ltd for a 16 ounce kilting tartan, 20 meter minimum order in England is £12.95 per metre. At the current exchange, that's $24.66 mer meter in USA dollars. See why I'm trying to work with N. Bately for us? That's a heck of a difference from $42 a meter, and a HECK of a difference from the $65 a yard from Matt's hand weaver.

But wait! Lets' pretend that we order exactly 20 metres of tartan. That means that the order will be, closenough as makes no difference, $500. What will shipping cost for 25 meters of heavyweight tartan from the UK to the USA? Probably around $75 or more and it could esily be $100.. How about import duty? If it's 30%, that adds another $8 a meter, or $160 to the total. That $500 could VERY easily climb to $760 for the order, and now we're at $38 a meter. Add in charges for wire transfers and who-knows what (there's always some stupid thing) and $40 a meter is probably right about where it will wind up. That's a long ways from the original price of $24 a meter, huh?

It's still a LOT less than $65 a meter for the custom weave, though. This is why I'm still working on this project. The question is, is the quality of the tartan really different? If folks give a thumbs down on F & K stuff and LOVE the N. Bately cloth, then that's the deciding factor. If it's the other way around, same thing goes.

Working with N. Bately Ltd will be more hassle than working with Fraser and Kirkbright. They're farther away, we don't have an X Marks "regular" smak-dab in the middle of their town like we do with Fraser and Kirkbright, and then there's the whole totally frustrating issue of getting material back to Hamish and others in the UK so that they don't have to pay duty TWICE. But that price, right up front. Whoa!!

So anyway, now you all know...

[Alan H]

Alan, When you got your price quotes, did you account for the fact that Fraser and Kirkbright may be in Canadian funds? If it is woven up here in Vancouver, I suspect that this may be the case.

I did, indeed, make the conversion.

[Thistle Stop]

I can recommend a really good Celtic shirt company in North Carolina

Might that be Highland Tide, by any chance?

I love their shirts, too, but they don't have some of the types of designs I get from Scotland. Great shirts, though! Not to mention, great people selling them!

[Mike1]

...I expect he's just really busy, but, well.... there you go.

You hit the nail on the thumb there, he is just really busy. I've had some brief communication with him and he has got more than just the one iron in the fire.

Patience...

[Thistle Stop]

The chief 'negatives' to using Fraser & Kirkbright are that they require a 30-yard minimum, and they use Merino wool, which is not as durable as the Scottish wool. I don't know what quality of wool N Bately use, however (they are in England). But it's probably of British origin, so it would be similar to what's used in Scotland. Merino wool comes from Australia. It's lovely wool for sweaters and other knits, but not so good for kilting tartan. Still, if they make a good product otherwise and the price turns out to be better, the savings on Customs duty and freight might make them a very attractive choice.

I will talk to them and see if they would be willing to do 20 yards instead of 30 and if they can give us a better price than $53.00 CAD.