Hot Stuff!

[berserkbishop]

As for whether plastic kilts (and let's not kid ourselves, for that's what oil-derived fibres basically are) are 'real' is, I accept, a matter of opinion. If your idea of a kilt is defined by its shape, then indeed anything goes. But if your definition, like mine, encompasses ideas of tradition and authenticity, then there is surely a hierarchy of quality.

Don't get me wrong. I have a collection of kilts of my own that include denim, leather, and one-off overprinted kilt2 specials that no one else on earth has. But these are fashion garments, in natural materials (that just don't burn remotely as easily!) which extend the kilt's heritage in exciting new directions, rather than mocking it. As such they are part of the evolving tradition. Artificial wools to me are very different -- a second-rate copy of the original, designed to deceive; they add little of merit to the tradition but only ape the real thing, and badly in my opinion.


Artificial fibres are a necessary compromise for anyone allergic to wool (which is why Scotweb / KiltStore sells expertly made polyviscose ones ourselves). But otherwise I can only see them as second best. That's my own aesthetic judgement.

This is where my feathers became ruffled, and I probably posted my previous thought without giving it enough consideration; so Nick, let me clarify what I mean. I DO NOT think that you should start another account. You have a right to an opinion as much as I do, but sometimes biting comments, whether intentional or not, can cut deep for unseen reasons. Now without going into a sob story I am going to tell you what threw me into a little tizzy. I was a foster kid, and through the events that led to that status, I really didnt have much contact with extended blood family. I always knew I was somewhat Scottish but that fact didnt come to life until recently as I have been struggling to build strong personal relationships with this extended family. I have done research and learned a lot and I really feel proud to have Scottissh blood running through my veins. The first time I put on a kilt in the MacLeod tartan the feeling was indescribable. When I read what you wrote about my kilt-o-synthetic fibers apeing the tradition it cut deep. As I stated, I am having a tank custom made for me, but I still feel the pride when I wear my SWK. It is the best I could do with the money I had at the time. I dont wear it to destroy the tradition of a wool kilt, I wear it because it is an affordable way to show my pride in my heritage. I never said that it was authentic and when people inquire about my kilt I am more than happy to explain what an "authentic" kilt is and why they are great. I dont necessarily disagree that PV or acrylic is secondary, but right now it is my primary and I will wear it with pride. Oh, and to put your mind at ease I was just spouting off about not ordering. . . you have some great deals and a well put together website. Again I apologize if my first post was to biting. I appreciate your support of this forum. My order for 8 meters of double with 16 oz Cunningham will be in soon!

[Woodsheal]

Go back and read Nick's initial post. He is merely warning of the potential danger (however remote) of a flammable fabric, and railing against deceptive labelling.

His words "cheap imports" and "crap" are what set some people off. This is ridiculous. I'm sure everyone can acknowledge that many "cheap" products in this world are indeed "crap"! Nick wasn't attacking anyone's choice to purchase and own a non-woolen kilt. Many of these are excellent kilts; many are not.

Too many people these days are overly sensitive and looking to be offended, where no offense is intended....

[Mike1]

Too many people these days are overly sensitive and looking to be offended, where no offense is intended....

Are you referring to the world in general? Or this forum in particular?

Either way, I am in complete agreement with you!

[Woodsheal]

Are you referring to the world in general? Or this forum in particular?

Yes...!

[berserkbishop]

Go back and read Nick's initial post. He is merely warning of the potential danger (however remote) of a flammable fabric, and railing against deceptive labelling.

His words "cheap imports" and "crap" are what set some people off. This is ridiculous. I'm sure everyone can acknowledge that many "cheap" products in this world are indeed "crap"! Nick wasn't attacking anyone's choice to purchase and own a non-woolen kilt. Many of these are excellent kilts; many are not.

Too many people these days are overly sensitive and looking to be offended, where no offense is intended....

Ok, here goes again. My posting was in response to Nicks second post not the first. I know that PV burns and I dont argue the fact that there are crappy kilts out there. He stated his opinion that PV was only a cheap imitation that detracted from the tradition of kilts. That is HIS OPINION and I STATED MY OPINION and then in my last post I apologized if my posting was emotional, biting, or inappropriate. Dont make this out to be me being overly sensitive or easily offended. If it is wrong to explain myself, and my feelings, opinions, and apologize for an outburst then I AM GLADLY WRONG!

[Larry124]

My two cents…

Manufacturers of clothing for children should take particular care, have higher standards, etc.

Given their recent food and toy issues, Heaven help us if China begins to make tartan cloth.

I think that garments should be labeled with the fabric content and country of origin.

An individual’s “preference” is absolutely valid.

But “not a real kilt unless it is wool” is to me snobbery. I don’t and won’t agree to it.

At the moment I am wearing a shirt made from a 100% polyester wool alternative material called “Worsterlon II” from Cabelas Outfitter. Likely a proprietary fabric, or at least the name is. I do not know its flammability characteristics but Cabelas is I think a pretty reputable company.

I have owned wool shirts and also have my father’s wool officer’s shirt from WWII.
I once had his wool overcoat but the moths ate it.
This “Worsterlon” fabric feels and looks every bit “as good as” wool to me.
I’d love to see a kilt made from it.
The state of the art in synthetic fabrics is not static but is always changing (probably in both directions, better and unfortunately worse) all the time.
There may come a day – or that day may already be here – when an “as good as” wool fabric is available.

I said, “I’d love to see a kilt made from it”. The shirt is of moderate cost, and skillful tailoring/construction of a kilt would likely rate a fair price. So maybe the cost would be less than a tank but more than today’s inexpensive kilts. I don’t know. But someone will figure it out.

There will always be prospective customers who have allergy issues with wool, or who desire a lighter weight, or who desire easier care in terms of laundering and storage. I don’t think that you can “educate” them out of those desires.
The market will respond. Hopefully some quality makers will be involved.
But the market will respond no matter who is involved.
If you can’t beat ‘em, join ‘em…?

NEVER say some. Ok. But you may have a smaller market.

Aside: It’s not only here. I belong to an acoustic guitar forum where the discussions about price and cost vs. materials, and craft/workmanship, and materials origin read about the same. The hot button question there is “what is authentic” and can modern materials be used to craft something that is “authentic”. It’s an open and often contentious question.

I can only decide for myself what my needs are and where my money will go.

[rollerboy_1979]

How did we ever survive the 70's in all those polyester leisure suits????

[rmmcscott]

How did we ever survive the 70's in all those polyester leisure suits????

Hmmm... a polyester leisure kilt... is that something like a mumu?

[rollerboy_1979]

Naw, it's a two piece suit that we "baby boomers" used to wear as we danced to that Bee Gees big hit "Barely Alive"!!

[ccga3359]

Okay lost in this thread was the flammability issue. The labeling issue should be another thread, the 'crap' sold at these tourist traps yet another.

Twenty seconds for a kilt to burn is disconcerting to say the least. To be honest do we know how flammable our own kilts are?

Someone mentioned Steve's burn test, interesting but it is a simple test.

Might I suggest Nick, that armed with this evidence and a "legitimate" concern that you go to your appropriate safety authority (in Canada we have CSA - Canadian Standards Association) and register your concern. Have them regulate those who sell dangerous items to the public. Dr Nick You will notice that I put quotes around legitimate. This is not to belittle you but as a reminder that this complaint is not from a competitor but as a concerned individual (or group). I would, however, ensure that your products do not react in a likewise manner.