Irish Tartans Questions

[Coemgen]

I'll just stick with my wool Saffron SWK, thankyouverymuch. Much easier than getting involved with all this controversy.

[gilmore]

Does anybody know the list of families in O'Dinan's list?

I saw 4 or so mentioned somewhere. You might do a wesearch or start here: http://www.somebody.to/irishkiltclub.htm

I have a solid red kilt, but when I saw that red was associated with Reagan, I quickly lost interest.

[Mike S]

I'll just stick with my wool Saffron SWK, thankyouverymuch. Much easier than getting involved with all this controversy.

I think the Saffron kilts are a Jim Dandy color anyway, and one of the most appealing of the solid colored kilts one can choose from.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

I have a solid red kilt, but when I saw that red was associated with Reagan, I quickly lost interest.

But solid colored kilts are not associated with particular Irish families anywhere other than O'Dinan's mind. If you want to wear a solid red kilt (or blue kilt, or green kilt, or purple kilt, etc), wear it. Don't worry about what family this nut wants you to think it "belongs" to.

~M

[sharpdressedscot]

I don't think there were tartans for the families as it was more for the region/district they lived in. Like if they lived in the Ulster district, then they would have worn an Ulster tartan, right??

[macwilkin]

I don't think there were tartans for the families as it was more for the region/district they lived in. Like if they lived in the Ulster district, then they would have worn an Ulster tartan, right??

The Ulster tartan is so named because the original piece was found in Ulster in 1956. It is not a contemporary name of the tartan, but rather a modern one.

T.

[M. A. C. Newsome]

Just like there were no prescribed solid colors for Irish families, there were no prescribed tartan patterns for Irish families, either. Nor were there prescribed tartans for Irish regions or districts. The popular Irish county tartans were designed in the mid-1990s.

Some people assume that the concept of district tartans existed in Scotland before the system of clan tartans. In reality, the concept of named tartans generally (be they for family, clan or district) arose in Scotland in the late eighteenth century and really came to fruition in the nineteenth. It never expanded out to include Ireland until very, very recently (and even now it seems to be something adopted by Irish descendants outside of Ireland rather than native Irish).

Aye,
Matt

[MacMillan of Rathdown]

Actually Irish tartans certainly reach back into the 19th century-- Pendleton Woolen Mills in Oregon has a book of Irish Tartans that dates back to about 1880, or perhaps a bit earlier. Most Irish should wear saffron, as Brehan sumptuary laws limited the wearing of multi-coloured cloth to the noble classes. While I can respect your wife's desire to celebrate her Irish heritage, the custom for some time has been for the wife to wear her husband's tartan. But, as in most matters of fashion, a lady is always free to choose her own ensemble.

[macwilkin]

Actually Irish tartans certainly reach back into the 19th century-- Pendleton Woolen Mills in Oregon has a book of Irish Tartans that dates back to about 1880, or perhaps a bit earlier. Most Irish should wear saffron, as Brehan sumptuary laws limited the wearing of multi-coloured cloth to the noble classes. While I can respect your wife's desire to celebrate her Irish heritage, the custom for some time has been for the wife to wear her husband's tartan. But, as in most matters of fashion, a lady is always free to choose her own ensemble.

If you're thinking of the Tara/Murphy tartan, you best read this article frae Matt Newsome:

http://kiltmaker.blogspot.com/search...rish%20tartans

Basically, the book that Pendleton has, the Clans Originaux [, has no "Irish tartans" in it. The Scottish Tartans Authority has a nice article about it on their web site:

http://www.tartansauthority.com/Web/...sOriginaux.asp

Regards,

Todd

[slohairt]

It seems we are drawn into this discussion every few months.

For many people, one hundred years is a sufficient amount of time for something to be considered "traditional." If so, wear the saffron kilt. Or perhaps an emerald green kilt like Eamonn Ceannt wore. The saffron kilt is, of course, mistakenly based on depictions of the Irish léine. However, anyone who has seen a léine knows that it is largely confined to the realms of reenactment and Renaissance fairs. The saffron kilt and matching brat seems a reasonably good modern interpretation. The fact that 19th Century Irish patriots based their ideas on Highland Dress makes perfect sense: Highlanders being largely descended from the Irish, one could say that Highland Dress itself is an adaption of Irish dress. It seems fitting (and complimenting) that modern/"traditional" Irish dress be based on Highland Dress.

Mr. O'Dinan (no, I'm not going to call him The O'Dinan!) seemed delusional at best or intentionally misleading at worst. I've never seen any evidence of these kilt colour-to-Irish-clan guides so I doubt very much they exist. If various Irish clan societies adopt certain solid colours (even based on this "missing" list) so be it. Eventually it will become tradition. It has, after all, as much basis in reality as Scottish clan tartans.

Yes, the Ulster tartan is old. It's strange that people often only make mention of the Ulster-Scots people and the Plantation when referring to it. Most of these people were Lowlanders and would not have worn tartan, much less kilts at that time. It should be remembered that there was a Scottish presence in Ulster long before the Plantation of the 17th Century: the gallowglass. Many were established families by the time the Lowlanders arrived with the Plantation.

So, wear what you like and like what you wear! Barring a modern interpretation of the Dungiven or Kilcommon costumes, it's the best we Irish have at the moment. Wear the Irish kilt with pride, but remember where it ultimately stems from.